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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Cheryl Hole on LGBTQ representation

291 replies

ArabeIIaKarenScott · 16/08/2023 09:47

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-66513419

'Cheryl has promised to "bring the glamour" to the kitchen but has also been "cooking my little Essex bum off" in preparation.
She added like every Essex girl she is a lover of a chippy at the end of a night out and always had a hankering for a battered sausage or saveloy.'

Cheryl Hole in the Masterchef kitchen

Celebrity MasterChef: Cheryl Hole on why LGBTQ+ representation is important

The drag star says being on Celebrity MasterChef is a way to have voices of the LGBTQ+ community heard.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-66513419?at_bbc_team=editorial&at_campaign=Social_Flow&at_campaign_type=owned&at_format=link&at_link_id=8EA99BA6-3BF5-11EE-BCF0-209FED5F52B7&at_link_origin=BBCNews&at_link_type=web_link&at_medium=social&at_ptr_name=twitter&xtor=AL-72-%5Bpartner%5D-%5Bbbc.news.twitter%5D-%5Bheadline%5D-%5Bnews%5D-%5Bbizdev%5D-%5Bisapi%5D

OP posts:
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17
BernardBlacksMolluscs · 16/08/2023 14:30

Is the lord chamberlain going to censor all the scripts from now on and prevent women from performing?

SiobhanSharpe · 16/08/2023 14:35

I have questions on this, can anyone provide answers?
I can't say I've ever been much of a fan of drag but have I've become much more uneasy about it recently. It seems to have changed in the past few years.
Why is there a conflation between drag queens and trans people? There never used to be. I thought Drag Queens were at pains to put a gulf between themselves and actual trans persons. (I know cross dressers come under the Stonewall 'TQI+++ umbrella' but thought that was just Sonewall shilling to avoid oblivion as times change.)
And I didn't think many DQs were indeed transwomen, unless they're jumping on a bandwagon now, of course .... Has that changed too?

Presumably the cross dressers referenced in the Stonewall umbrella are people who don't do it just for putting on a show. I.E. they cross dress in everyday life.

So is the 'Drag is different, it's traditional entertainment, it's for families' mantra just bollocks? And it's for trans women only now?
Was Paul O'Grady actually trans? I thought he was just a gay man. Is RuPaul trans? He seems to be a man when he's not performing.
Othwerwise I cannot see why drag queens, who have been actors and comedians, straight or gay, would want to be lumped in with trans - how is it in their best interests?

RebelliousCow · 16/08/2023 14:38

It isn't in LGB interests to become conflated with the TQ - especially the Q. The attempt to push 'queer culture' on everyone - of which drag queens are a part ( as well as fetish/kink)- is resulting in a backlash against the LG - and especially the G.

Zodfa · 16/08/2023 14:42

How could anything originating in the sixteenth century possibly be misogynistic?!

EdithStourton · 16/08/2023 14:50

A lot of other things that the Tudors got up to - beheading unwanted queens, not educating our daughters - we don't do any longer.

Misogyny, though, innit? Plus ca change, plus ca meme bloody chose.

loislovesstewie · 16/08/2023 14:55

Perhaps we ought to go back to burning those pesky women at the stake? Any other Tudor pastime to be brought back ? Bear baiting? The ducking stool?

DiceLadder · 16/08/2023 14:58

I'm surprised drag hasn't been cancelled for being offensive yet.
You'd think a man dressing up as a woman as a joke would be seen as offensive to men dressing up as women but wanting it to be serious.

SolitaryBee · 16/08/2023 15:03

I was on the BBC website looking for highlights from the WWC semi finals. There right next to the link I'm looking for is fecking Cheryl Hole. Bastard BBC can't let women have one sublime moment without making sure we know our place..........just holes for men's pleasure.

Cheryl Hole on LGBTQ representation
FrancescaContini · 16/08/2023 15:20

Nothing remotely funny about his name 🤮

LoobiJee · 16/08/2023 16:21

ArabeIIaKarenScott · 16/08/2023 11:56

'The drag name is based on the artist Cheryl, formerly known as Cheryl Cole. Cheryl Hole has been quoted as saying, “My drag name comes from the icon and Geordie princess Cheryl Cole. Cheryl have inspired so much of my life” which we don’t agree would be interpreted by the majority as^^ misogynist. Instead, it’s cheeky play on words which could be explained as such in a family setting and so we saw no reason to exclude her from the show.'

A 'cheeky' play on words? How is it 'cheeky'? What is the pun referring to, so that I can explain it 'in a family setting'.

I want these fuckers to spell it out.

Assuming that Elan Closs Stephens is still Acting Chair of the BBC, it might be worth writing to her to:

  • ask her to provide the specific form of words that parents should use when explaining to their nine year old daughter that “hole” is, in the considered opinion of the licence-fee funded BBC, a ‘cheeky play on words’; and
  • invite her to clarify which hole, specifically, the BBC complaints department employee thinks this Adult Entertainment Industry worker, whom the BBC has entered into a fee-paying contract with, is alluding to in this supposedly ‘cheeky’ stage name.

Is this Adult Entertainment Industry Worker referring to Cheryl Cole’s mouth, as in ‘cake hole’? That could fairly be described as ‘cheeky’, but if so why not simply adopt the stage name Cheryl Cakehole?

Or is this Adult Entertainment Industry Worker referring to Cheryl Cole’s urethra perhaps? Does the BBC complaints department employee believe that the stage name refers to the term “pee hole”? And, if so, could the BBC Chair confirm which of the following does the BBC consider would best describe ‘a play on words’ on the term ‘pee hole’: ‘cheeky’, ‘juvenile’, ‘on a par with playground bullying’ or ‘so cringe it’s actually tragic’?

Or is the Adult Entertainment Industry Worker’s stage name referring to Cheryl Cole’s anus? Does the BBC complaints department employee believe the name is alluding to the term ‘a…hole’? If so, can the BBC Chair confirm whether it is the BBC’s position that the word ‘a…hole’ is funny, never deployed as an insult, and wholly suitable for a family audience? or vulgar and inappropriate for a family audience?

Is this Adult Entertainment Industry Worker referring to Cheryl Cole’s birth canal? In which case, does the BBC complaints department employee believe the stage name is alluding to the term “f- hole”? And if so can the BBC Chair confirm if the BBC considers the term ‘f-hole’ to be obscene, demeaning and deeply misogynistic? or does the BBC consider the term ‘f-hole’ to be lighthearted banter entirely in keeping with the BBC’s duty to “inform, educate, and entertain”?

Is it the BBC’s considered policy intention here to “inform and educate” female children into understanding, at as early an age as possible, that their lot in life as female humans is to be the object of sexualised ridicule and grotesque caricature from unfunny middle aged males, and that they had best shut up about the feelings of degradation it gives them, and laugh along as it’s all just family-friendly cheeky banter? Perhaps the BBC Chair could confirm.

FrancescaContini · 16/08/2023 16:29

Very good, @LoobiJee

betterchange · 16/08/2023 16:39

We can but hope that in the heat of the Masterchef kitchen, "Miss Hole's" make up pours off "her" face and "her" plastic breasts melt. Live, on camera, of course.

Now that would be amusing to watch.

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 16/08/2023 16:58

Excellent questions, @LoobiJee .

"Drag as a cultural phenomenon dates back to Tudor times"

I assume by that they mean the practice of boys playing female roles in the theatre? That's really not the same thing at all.

Paul O'Grady was on record as intensely disliking the currently fashionable form of drag.

Sinner, my understanding is that traditionally many drag artists were gay, but not all - it certainly wasn't a requirement. And few-to-none would have considered themselves trans (the much-mentioned Marsha P Johnson I think used the name full time but described himself as a gay man and as a drag queen, not as a woman). It's a performance, a character, not an identity.

Although that brings us back to the question of why this particular person is appearing 'in character' when actors on similar programmes appear as themselves.

JoodyBlue · 16/08/2023 17:09

@LoobiJee your post made me laugh but it is spot on! Would love BBC to be bombarded with emails citing it. I've pretty much given up on BBC, but wonder if they still have a feedback programme, in which case this is perfect for it!

Iworkformeanies · 16/08/2023 17:10

RealityFan · 16/08/2023 10:44

In any other demeaning situation, Cheryl Cole would sue re this person and bastardisation of her name.

In any other situation. Another example of a free pass for trans.

Cheryl Hole is not trans. Hes a gay man. Most drag queens are not trans, most are gay men.

You can see Cheryl Hole meet the real Cheryl Cole in series 1, episode 6 of RuPauls Drag Race UK. It's on BBC iplayer and if you don't want to watch the whole thing start about 43 minutes in.

ZebediahTwine · 16/08/2023 17:16

My local BBC TV news covers Essex and there was an interview with this contestant on the lunchtime news, Look East.

The DQ said “We’ve just had an attack on the LGBT(Q?)+ community in Clapham the other day.”

From what I’ve heard it was a homophobic attack outside a gay bar. Why bring in all the other letters?

The contestant also said, “Obviously I’m going to bring the glamour to the kitchen,” which I thought showed a mistaken level of entitlement when Sam Fox and Jamelia are also competing.

The BBC presenter referred to the interviewee as “she.” I thought drag queens were usually men, not transwomen, and more than likely (in my limited experience) same-sex attracted.

mumda · 16/08/2023 17:28

Womenface is acceptable but blackface is not.

Why?

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 16/08/2023 17:30

Something something Tudor times something

BabyStopCryin · 16/08/2023 18:49

Jamelia? Oh Lord above. 😳

Saltovinegar · 16/08/2023 19:12

They might as well go the whole way and just call themselves Are Hole or Big Are Hole to be exact!

Saltovinegar · 16/08/2023 19:13

I put a star in for the S but it hasn't appeared in my post, I'm sure people get my drift though....

PatatiPatatras · 16/08/2023 20:49

Wasn't there a poster about a year ago arguing that drag was an art form and could be explained to children because you take your costume off at the end of the day, or was it supposed to be like santa or the tooth fairy?
And it really didn't have anything to do with the T, never mind the lgb...

Yeah... yeah...

FroodwithaKaren · 16/08/2023 21:23

Why does Master Chef now have to have a compulsory drag person on every series? Why just one, and every single time? It looks beyond tick boxy rather than genuine.

Done our inclusiveness and ramming of righteousness down the plebs faces <tick>

PorcelinaV · 16/08/2023 21:48

WiltingAtTreadmills · 16/08/2023 12:47

I know you can say this about most television in 2023 but this is literally from Alan Partridge - cook with Fanny Thomas on the Christmas Knowing Me, Knowing You, nearly 30 years ago.

Alan Partridge Punches Guests Live On TV - Knowing Me Knowing Yule - BBC

It's near the end of the show and it seems like Alan is not only beginning to lose control of his guests but his temper also.Taken From the Christmas Special...

https://youtu.be/Bk-yXi0fIF8?si=3dRVNk8nh8qCHjZs

SamW98 · 16/08/2023 21:50

I’m happy to see Sam Fox a middle aged married openly gay woman who just gets on with it without making a big song and dance.