Gym /. Swimming changing issue

[BelfastDadof3]

I'll start first and say I'm sorry for intruding on a safe space for women.
Am a single dad (widow but not recent) with three kids 2 girls 11 +13 and a 9yr old boy.

Also I'd say kids are bright and confident, very excepting as I've tried to bring them up to accept all body shapes and not point / shame.

I go to the gym three times a week, do my workout and the kids have a supervised kids swim lesson (just the three of them) and I meet them after for a swim and play.

There isn't family changing, but I don't think it's applicable as my girls are old enough.

So having a muffin after the swim my 9yr old boy asked me.
"dad, why do most of the men walk about naked in the changing room?Willie's out. Is it not normal to have a towel around you untill you get your pants on."

So I said some people were just very free, but I think it's a bit over the top. Bit of a discussion about respecting others space etc and then my boy said" it's also odd that some shave all their body hair off, even the old fat men, it's weird looking"

Normal ish conversation.

Then he asked the girls what happens in the changing rooms. They were a bit horrified and said that most women and girls had big towels and kept private. Because - their words " girls arnt horrible like boys"

Then the eldest daughter said "a room full of men drying their bits would be duscusting. When the [transwoman - edited by MNHQ] is in the changing room we use the disabled cubicle. There's lots of room and we don't have to see him dry his bits. And (jokingly) his man bum and huge boobs do not look nice."

So really I don't know how to approach this.
I presumed that if a man transfered to a trans woman he would have female genitals. Maybe I'm niave.

It's a really nice gym and pool - Bannatynes - a treat for the kids..
Is this the same everywhere?
If I raise it with the manager am I being transphobic to suggest no penises in the female changing?

And one of my points is that it doesn’t matter what you individually think. Because transwomen DO exist. Transwomen with penises DO exist.

Our children will meet transwomen with penises during their life time.

Do I think men should be showing their penises to women and children, well of course not. Thank god this is a criminal offence and should always be reported accordingly.

Do I think that’s transwomen with penises should be changing in female changing room, I honestly don’t know. I would feel extremely uncomfortable to be changing in a communal changing area and see a surprise penis. I am a trans alley but I don’t have the answers.

Like it or not transwomen have rights to use single sex spaces including changing rooms, toilets, waiting rooms etc. We have to educate our children about transpeople.

I haven’t said a women can have a penis, I have said a transwomen can have a penis. There is a difference and everyone needs to find a way to navigate life with transpeople because whether you think it is “right” or not they exist. To really protect our children and keep them safe we need to have continuous open conversations with our children about transpeople.

I have put this book below again as it is a good starting point as to how to have conversations with children.

If a trans-identifying male truly had any insight or empathy into life as a woman, he would exclude himself from women's spaces.

Like it or not transwomen have rights to use single sex spaces including changing rooms, toilets, waiting rooms etc. We have to educate our children about transpeople.

stop repeating this, it’s complete nonsense. This is not what the equality act says at all. This is stonewall law not the actual law

No, @CalMeKate we don't have to accept this. Many people are taking a stand and saying no, just like the OP. No more apathy!

Thank christ for you people (except @CalMeKate) I find it so hard to explain why I believe gender ideology is based purely on stereotyping but you lot totally get it! OP, you have done entirely the right thing, don't be a stranger on here if you need any further advice

No male has the right to use female single sex spaces @CalMeKate
stop lying and gaslighting women and children.

CalMeKate, fantasize about transwomen's penises all you want but please please please stop writing 'a women'. It's doing my head in.

"Like it or not transwomen have rights to use single sex spaces including changing rooms, toilets, waiting rooms etc."

Bullshit. That's just a straight up stonewall fabrication.

And you can protect children from penises in single sex spaces the same way we protected them before the emperors robed penis entered the single sex spaces.
Full acceptance without pushback is not the only answer.

Women's rights activists are actively lobbying to clarify the EA 2010 following the wilful misinterpretations we have seen.

If you truly are interested in protecting children you can’t just deny that transpeople exist.

My local swimming pool doesn't have men's and women's changing rooms just one big room with around 50 cubicles, some are bigger I'm guessing for a whole family of disabled people. The showers are around the pool. Nobody sees anybody naked.

Good thing nobody's doing that then.

'Like it or not transwomen have rights to use single sex spaces including changing rooms, toilets, waiting rooms etc. We have to educate our children about transpeople.'

Rubbish.

If the law clearly states that a transwoman is entitled to change in the ladies', why would a savvy and law-abiding businessman like Duncan Bannatyne be insisting that this should not happen in one of his clubs? 🧐

Actually. I will walk back on that.

Trans people - like everyone - are entitled to use single sex spaces in accordance with their sex.

Nobody is denying that trans people exist. They obviously do and deserve to live in safety and dignity. It does not follow that transwomen have the right to use women's spaces.

Trans people do, of course, have the right to campaign for their own spaces - why would they not want to do that, if they don't want to use the space appropriate for their sex?

Absolutely no one is denying TW exist. What most are saying is they are still men regardless of how they choose to present themselves and as such do not belong in women single sex spaces - not hard to understand really

@CalMeKate

I haven’t said a women can have a penis, I have said a transwomen can have a penis.

So who posted this at 09:46 this morning?

We are living in a world where genitals does not reflect on identified sex. Women have penis’ and men have vulvas and vaginas.

No one is denying anybody exists.
They need to use the spaces relating to their sec.

Stating penises should not be in a female changing room does not make the penis spontaneously disappear.
The penis is still on the transwoman. We still know it is a transwoman. The transwoman can take the penis to an appropriate place without the transwoman ceasing to exist.

Yes they can identify as whatever they want, but it fundamentally doesn’t matter. It’s a man’s sex that makes us afraid of them, their penis, their physical advantage etc. This issue has stemmed from a general long history and our personal experiences of male violence and perverted sexual advances.

The entire thread is about them.

The only sex transwomen are is male.

Do I think that’s transwomen with penises should be changing in female changing room, I honestly don’t know. I would feel extremely uncomfortable to be changing in a communal changing area and see a surprise penis. I am a trans alley but I don’t have the answers.

You have certainly posted quite a few answers here!

Are you this dim in every aspect of your life or just on this topic, because so far in this thread you've managed to:

• misrepresent the equality act
• claim that girls and women just need to get used to seeing men's cocks in female only spaces
• claim that it's actually against safeguarding to respect girls and women's sexual and privacy boundaries
• make up a theme of us denying that transpeople exist.

No one is denying that trans people exist, we are just saying that transitioning to a different gender does not negate the fact that you have a biological sex which is also a protected characteristic and entities you to rights under the Equality Act.

I think @CalMeKate any person prepared to take a penis into a female changing room has zero respect for the boundaries of female adults or children. We should NOT be educating our children to respect this. The words of the two girls in the original post was an appropriate response. The way they sought refuge in a cubicle was an appropriate response. Telling their dad was an appropriate response. Expecting the dad to act to protect them was an appropriate response. Teaching them that this is the status quo is abusive gaslighting. And sure TW exist perhaps, and if so always have, and our society has run fine with mutual respect usually. We could make small steps to respect and acceptance. But this steam rollering in roughshod over women and children. I do not see how you do not see that as a problem...... Why are you rolling over?