Gym /. Swimming changing issue

[BelfastDadof3]

I'll start first and say I'm sorry for intruding on a safe space for women.
Am a single dad (widow but not recent) with three kids 2 girls 11 +13 and a 9yr old boy.

Also I'd say kids are bright and confident, very excepting as I've tried to bring them up to accept all body shapes and not point / shame.

I go to the gym three times a week, do my workout and the kids have a supervised kids swim lesson (just the three of them) and I meet them after for a swim and play.

There isn't family changing, but I don't think it's applicable as my girls are old enough.

So having a muffin after the swim my 9yr old boy asked me.
"dad, why do most of the men walk about naked in the changing room?Willie's out. Is it not normal to have a towel around you untill you get your pants on."

So I said some people were just very free, but I think it's a bit over the top. Bit of a discussion about respecting others space etc and then my boy said" it's also odd that some shave all their body hair off, even the old fat men, it's weird looking"

Normal ish conversation.

Then he asked the girls what happens in the changing rooms. They were a bit horrified and said that most women and girls had big towels and kept private. Because - their words " girls arnt horrible like boys"

Then the eldest daughter said "a room full of men drying their bits would be duscusting. When the [transwoman - edited by MNHQ] is in the changing room we use the disabled cubicle. There's lots of room and we don't have to see him dry his bits. And (jokingly) his man bum and huge boobs do not look nice."

So really I don't know how to approach this.
I presumed that if a man transfered to a trans woman he would have female genitals. Maybe I'm niave.

It's a really nice gym and pool - Bannatynes - a treat for the kids..
Is this the same everywhere?
If I raise it with the manager am I being transphobic to suggest no penises in the female changing?

A man is a man. Nothing he does to his body can make him a woman. How can you fail to grasp this simple undeniable biological fact? Are you in fact under-bridge dwelling, just waiting for billygoats gruff to come trip-trapping over your bridge? It’s the only possible explanation for your increasingly inane doubling down.

You really keep proving that you have NO concept of boundaries and you want to actively teach and condition girls to lower theirs.

That is red flag behaviour from someone who has told us they are in a position of safeguarding responsibility.

I cannot believe what I have read here today. There isn’t enough red flags to post.

seriously fucked up to be actively teaching children to lower their boundaries this way.

Of course, no need to ask!

Well done OP.

I think you’re taking the piss now.

So it’s up to the KIDS to adapt and understand?

I’m glad you’re not my mum.

Trans rights are now a standard within our society so preparing children how to navigate this world we live in is far safer including transpeople than excluding them from your narrative.

There is no ‘trans right’ to use the spaces of the opposite sex. This is a direct clash with the right of women and girls to have privacy from males in single sex spaces. I hope you’d agree that the rights of women and girls deserve priority. (I know you won’t though).

In current year, the women objecting to the male bodied person in the women's changing room will be removed, not the male bodied person. Time for a meme:

Well done OP. Have a look at the WiSpa incident in the USA. A man who deliberately exposed himself you a young girl in a spa turned out to be a sex offender.
Men who ignore the social contract and don't respect the rights of girls and women to have boundaries fly their own massive red flags.

Do you want the transwomen banned from the female changing rooms? Do you want all people with penis’ to change in the male changing rooms?

Speaking personally, yes, that would be perfect, thanks for asking.

Not sure why that is so controversial. We already know that many male trans people do this without incident.

That's the sad part. But I'd rather take all of the negative consequences for speaking out than staying silent. Anything they threw at me, would be easier than living with myself, as the type of woman who stays silent! And I am teaching my daughter the same lesson!

It really does not matter what my opinion is or what I believe regarding transwomen because it isn’t up to me what happens in society. Where ever you are on the trans fence of acceptance or refusal our society is inclusive of trans people and trans rights. That is factually accurate.

No it is not. The vast majority of the British public, when polled, are not comfortable with intact males in female only spaces like toilets and changing rooms.

There are also exceptions to the law for single sex services. They should be assumed to apply to all males, unless otherwise stated. There is no positive right for "trans women" to use women's spaces, because they are not actually women.

Okay.. let’s take the penis out of the equation. If the transwomen had had surgery and no longer had a penis. Would there still be the same concerns?

Imagine getting changed in a changing room beside your male neighbour. Not great, right? Now imagine getting changed beside your male neighbour after a freak accident has removed his penis. Any better?

Women can't see that inner feeling men have, men who say they are women. We are uncomfortable in both situations, penis or no penis. We deserve privacy from the male gaze.

You really keep proving that you have NO concept of boundaries and you want to actively teach and condition girls to lower theirs.

That is red flag behaviour from someone who has told us they are in a position of safeguarding responsibility.

I cannot believe what I have read here today. There isn’t enough red flags to post.

seriously fucked up to be actively teaching children to lower their boundaries this way.

This is the thing I dislike the most about Calmekate's ideology. If children/women are made uncomfortable and uneasy by men, they need to be able to express that. A male disregarding women's privacy and dignity is a red flag in and of itself.

How do we feel about lesbian women being naked in front of teenage girls whilst getting changed in the changing room? How do we feel about gay men getting changed in front of teenage boys in the men’s changing room?
Lesbians aren't men. Gay men aren't women. Your post, however, is homophobic AF.

Is there a group of TRA with a script, as soon as a likely post is put on here they do rock, paper, scissors and the loser has to write the script on the thread? Whilst trying to sound caring of course?

CalMeKate I find the way you insist that it is right to condition female children to accept male abuse quite chilling.

Resist!

I don't think so in this case because we haven't had 'oh look, a racist squirrel' yet.

Sadly, I think Calmekate really does prioritise male fantasy over female safety, and wants the rest of us to do so as well..

Are girls now being raised to accept nude men in their spaces as a matter of course? To 'look away'? To never trust their inner instinct to protect themselves, to avoid potential predators?

What's going to be the impact on a generation of girls raised to politely ignore red flags? To not say anything for fear of using the wrong words? To accept 'female penises' in women's spaces?

Extraordinary the knots some people can twist themselves into to defend male people getting their penises in front of little girls who don't want to see it.
This entire mess could be solved by introducing one single simple solution if you've got a penis, don't expose it to anyone who might not want to see it.
Why is this so difficult?

What we could do as a society is make it clear that a man exposing his penis to women or girls in a single sex space is criminal indecent exposure in and of itself, regardless of genderfeelz.

Are girls now being raised to accept nude men in their spaces as a matter of course? To 'look away'? To never trust their inner instinct to protect themselves, to avoid potential predators?^^

What's going to be the impact on a generation of girls raised to politely ignore red flags? To not say anything for fear of using the wrong words? To accept 'female penises' in women's spaces?

Exactly Arabella. This gaslighting and dismissal of women's and girls' feelings won't just affect their behaviour with strange men either, but men who are more likely to assault them, such as male friends, dates etc. The ones our safeguarding champion here thinks we should be more concerned about.

It isn't just penises. Even if they've had a chop, XY people should not be in women's spaces.

I fully agree, but it's more difficult. This would be an obvious thing which could be done, it just needs the criminal justice system to be clear.

I mean it's more difficult with the law that we have. We need it clarified that SSE are for women, not males.