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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

EmpressaurusOfCats · 09/08/2023 12:27

I’d love to think so but Labour haven’t convinced me yet.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 09/08/2023 12:33

Rubbish

while there’s such a thing as legal sex which can differ from, yanno, actual sex, it’s not over

inverness123 · 09/08/2023 12:38

Also, I think she means it is over in England (and I don’t agree with that either). It’s sadly not over at all in Scotland!

But I do agree this shows great progress and is a testament to the amazing women who have fought so hard against it.

SunnyEgg · 09/08/2023 12:43

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 09/08/2023 12:33

Rubbish

while there’s such a thing as legal sex which can differ from, yanno, actual sex, it’s not over

This

RealityFan · 09/08/2023 12:44

Helen has the best take on Starmer, and what makes him tick, inspiring my Starmer The Tortoise thread here. His slicing the onion ever more finely to make Labour electable in a country that's mainly small c conservative, including his recent change of heart on Self ID, fits into this Gender Wars Are Over narrative from Helen. Her substack is really worth reading.

PriOn1 · 09/08/2023 12:46

I still don’t think it’s over, but politically, the Labour party backing away from self-ID is a huge shift.

Self-ID is the flagship demand, so any move away from that is enormous.

SunnyEgg · 09/08/2023 12:48

PriOn1 · 09/08/2023 12:46

I still don’t think it’s over, but politically, the Labour party backing away from self-ID is a huge shift.

Self-ID is the flagship demand, so any move away from that is enormous.

Why huge if it’s just £5 and a Dr appointment to gain access to single sex spaces as a legal female?

Baldieheid · 09/08/2023 12:51

I disagree, sadly. Pandora's box has been opened and I suspect I'll be fighting this crap on one front or another for the rest of my life. It's misogyny on steroids and I can't see it going anywhere now the ones right at the far back of the trail can actually taste the children.....

Toseland · 09/08/2023 13:41

Rubbish - it seems to me that Labour will bring in self-ID but it will be called something else and cost a fiver from a dodgy GP.
We are not much further forward - it's definately not over.

StopStartStop · 09/08/2023 13:43

No. It's just a way to quieten us down again. The gender nonsense is ingrained and will take years of vigilance and action to weed out. Labour won't help us.

WallaceinAnderland · 09/08/2023 13:49

It doesn't feel over. What has materially changed?

Fenlandia · 09/08/2023 13:59

If this were true, and I don't trust Labour one bit anyway, how come this board is still daily full of new examples of the harms of gender ideology? The queer nit combs were a hoot, but we also have serious stuff from healthcare, schools, academia, the arts and sport to name a few.

SunnyEgg · 09/08/2023 14:00

This is just a re-spun version of stop talking about it that crops up every few weeks

Usually from Labour

duc748 · 09/08/2023 14:03

Can't read the article, but surely without a firm commitment to scrap, or radically amend, the GRA, and a very firm No to Self-ID, we aren't much further forward? Isn't Helen Lewis in the US now?

Mummy08m · 09/08/2023 14:03

I work in a secondary school in England.

It's barely even begun. It's going to get so so so much worse before it gets better.

These journalists are stuck in a political world but the real life world is a long phase lag behind.

RealityFan · 09/08/2023 14:10

I agree with your reservations, one and all. The jury remains out. We'll know all about it when Starmer and his cronies assume power in just over a year's time.

My Q to all of you...are you prepared to follow the tactics of JSO, the statue dismantlers, Greenpeace?

Are you prepared to break the law in a Suffragettes 2.0 campaign, to bring the M25 to a standstill during the Monday rush hour?

Will you interrupt sports events and vandalise paintings in museums?

Will you drape a giant Woman = Adult Human Female canopy over Starmer's house?

Most critically, will you take this pure class war, ie women's sex based rights versus men's activist rights to co-opt women, right to the lions den...Downing Street, GMB and Unite union AGMs, the DoE, DoH, Stonewall HQ etc?

Because the policies that will control your future will be made in those places from late 2024 onwards.

JellySaurus · 09/08/2023 14:24

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 09/08/2023 12:33

Rubbish

while there’s such a thing as legal sex which can differ from, yanno, actual sex, it’s not over

This.

JellySaurus · 09/08/2023 14:25

Baldieheid · 09/08/2023 12:51

I disagree, sadly. Pandora's box has been opened and I suspect I'll be fighting this crap on one front or another for the rest of my life. It's misogyny on steroids and I can't see it going anywhere now the ones right at the far back of the trail can actually taste the children.....

And this.

IWillNoLie · 09/08/2023 14:26

Not until the GRA is repealed.

SayingwhatIreallythink · 09/08/2023 14:26

Labour is only against self-ID while Starmer is in charge. None of his likely successors are against self ID

Froodwithatowel · 09/08/2023 14:27

The Labour Party identifies as the gender war being over.

Evidence? Reality? Get thee behind me bigot.

nepeta · 09/08/2023 14:37

The institutional capture means that this is not at all over, and in some countries it is barely beginning. Someone on Twitter said that what we now observe is the end of the beginning, not the beginning of the end.

But I do think that the beginning of the attempted takeover and erasure of the female sex in the West is probably over as now it is possibly to at least occasionally argue about the issues.

I can't help noticing the simultaneous linguistic erasure of women in the West and the real erasure of women from the public sphere in Afghanistan, with the total removal of all agency from women there.

I am not arguing for any causal relationship between the two, but I do believe that the relative lack of attention to the plight of Afghan women and girls among Western feminist organisations is linked to their focus on the needs to erase women at home, to benefit a group they view as more deserving of rights than just boring bog standard women.

Moonberri · 09/08/2023 14:42

Kier is a flip flop. He'll say anything if it gets him more votes. It wasn't long ago he said that it's completely wrong to say that "only women have cervixes" with a look of complete disgust on his face.

Beamur · 09/08/2023 14:56

Someone on Twitter said that what we now observe is the end of the beginning, not the beginning of the end
I suspect this may be true. I think that the stealth steamroller is over - and it has been extremely successful. Institutional and youth capture has been widespread.
Doesn't mean this is the new world order though as the downsides and casualties start to become apparent.
What happens next though? Influence can be hard to wrestle back, or it can happen really easily. Political leverage can swing. Labour have woken up to this issue not being as straightforward as they thought and a potential vote loser. Hence the radical shift in very recent times. Reconciliation between the polarities of opinion isn't going to happen though.

Floisme · 09/08/2023 14:58

I can only access the first few lines but they read as pretty cautious to me. Does Lewis actually say it's over or is it a case of someone else writing the headline?

I don't think we should underestimate the progress we've made. I agree it's not clear yet whether Labour are really turning their back on self ID but I think it's still very significant that they're now shying away from promoting it.

But even if I totally agreed with the premise, the post war work would only just be beginning: clearing up the mess, rebuilding our institutions, holding the people who got us into this to account and figuring out how to avoid it ever happening again..