Transman loses baby during hysterectomy

[ItsFunToBeAVampire]

Transgender patient loses unborn baby while undergoing hysterectomy while four months pregnant https://mol.im/a/12387829

This article is horrifying.
In my experience women are always given pregnancy tests before surgery, what the hell happened here?

So have you reported it instead of claiming it represents the views of the entire group of people on the thread?

Exactly and I hope it's made clear throughout correspondence and contact that this is offered to ALL patients, otherwise the next issue will be the complaints due to the trauma of being denied treatment without a pregnancy test.

Yes, I have reported it.

No, I have not claimed it represents the views of everyone on this thread.

This thread however is an example of the general transphobia that pervades MN in certain areas.

Because the placenta was growing into the patient's ceserian scar and therefore was not viable.

Enough is enough now, the NHS really needs to start protecting patients and medical staff by sorting their shit out.

"So no responsibility at all for them to take a test themselves? Is that due to their special status? "

I had a hysterectomy 5 years ago. Preg test was done by the hospital on admission. Why would I do one myself? However I would have asked for one if the hospital had "forgotten".

You’re all assuming this person is genuinely trans. Do you have any goddamned idea how hard it is to get a hysterectomy on the NHS as a woman? I’ve had three consultations with them on it, three times my request has been denied because “I may not be done having children” (I have 3 children), “I’m not old enough” (last request at 30), “I might change my mind in future when I enter a new relationship”. I am so fucking tempted to say I’m trans just to get a hysterectomy. I know damn fine I don’t want more children.

The mortality rate following a hysterectomy ranges from 0.6 to 1.6 per 1000 procedures. Complications are much more common and can be serious.

This person has existing children.

They chose to undergo a risky, invasive and completely unnecessary surgery.

Regardless of the fact that the pregnancy should have been picked up, they were happy to leave their children without a mother, or with a severely ill/disabled mother, by choosing to undergo a surgery that no medical professional with any ethics or integrity would agree to carry out.

It's not surprising that fuck ups like this happen when everything about the entire process from beginning to end is a travesty of medical ethics.

This was in Australia.

This is in Australia. The NHS has nothing to do with it.

Presumably the same applies to any woman who wants a hysterectomy. I don't see the same judgement being poured upon them.

This thread is so distasteful.

This person went in for surgery. Pre surgery, they actively asked after, and were reassured they would be given in the pre op, a pregnancy test.

For whatever reason, this test was not performed. This is a ludicrous hospital policy, that has now rightly been changed. Mumsnet, for whatever reason, has decided this person was clearly lying during the pre op and at personal fault. There's no reason at all for that assumption over one of a poorly enacted crappy hospital policy. Indeed, I'd argue them actively ASKING after pg testing before the op, would suggest it's a crap questionaire/quiestion-er and a crap policy, rather than a lies from someone asking if they should do a test...

The person affected has campaigned for automatic pg testing before surgery. That's all. And a bloody sensible thing, too! I am very glad the hospital has now changed its policy and does now routinely pg test before surgery.

This has nothing to do with Trans. It just happens that the affected person was in this case trans. It could have been anyone biologically female who was having a hysterectomy. Teens, those in abusive relationships, those having affairs, those who have memory issues, those who are in denial and those who are just a bit thick, might all not answer such a questionaire reliably.

I am broadly GC. I have written innumerable letters to my MP, my council, parliament. I have stickered and spoken up for the protection of women's rights. Threads like this are why I now mostly don't post here though and stick to RL- this thread is just blaming a Trans person for a massive failure of hospital policy for no reason other than that they are Trans. Bloody good for them, for highlighting this ridiculous policy as an issue.

The trouble is we're all relying on a newspaper report, and we can't be sure it's entirely accurate. We don't know whether the hospital routinely performed pregnancy tests before a hysterectomy, and made an exception in this case, or whether they only performed pregnancy tests if the patient gave answers suggesting they needed one.

From the newspaper article, it seems to be the latter, but we can't be sure. It would, in my view, be very anomalous for a hospital not to be performing a pregnancy test as routine.

We also don't know whether the patient's trans status had anything to do with the hospital deciding not to carry out the test, or whether it was some other reason. Maybe someone at the hospital simply forgot to carry out the test?

The story as it stands makes very little sense. This is a female of childbearing age, who'd already had children, who (presumably) hadn't had a period for some months and was experiencing nausea. Why wouldn't you perform a pregnancy test?

Clearly some did not read the article. The patient was assured a pregnancy test would be done, and it wasn't. This is a mess up on the hospitals' part.

The responses are interesting. If this had happened to a women who identified as their biological sex there would be nothing but sympathy. But because the patient was trans, everyone is blaming her and distinctly lacking in sympathy. Sad. You can not necessarily agree that you can change your sex (as I don't think you can) but still have sympathy for them.

They said they'd asked a range of questions which apparently satisfied them she couldn't be pregnant - I suspect that one question was "When was your last period?" and another "Have you had unprotected PIV sex since your last period?"

If she'd had a bleed - which we all know isn't impossible if you're pregnant - she might have interpreted that as a period.

The hospital probably also made all kinds of assumptions based on her being trans-identifying - this was a bad mistake.

Jesus Christ. Words fail me.

Because the story is the uterus had a foetus in it. It had a foetus in it because no one did a pregnancy test. Which was the hospital’s responsibility. The hospital decided they’d met their responsibility by completing a questionnaire which was completed by the patient and a nurse. The answers to those questions were based on menstruation, sex and symptoms. It was wrong to rely on these questions and test should have been done.

If the patient wasn’t trans it’s likely the answers to the questions would have raised concerns leading to a test.

I'm not aware of any women with children having medically unnecessary hysterectomies. Nor any medical professionals who would agree to carry it out.

All the women I know who have had hysterectomies have needed them for medical reasons.

It seems that this is a unique situation where risk/benefit analysis, and the Hippocratic oath, don't apply.

Many cis women dont find out they are pregnant until they give birth, so Im not sure why youre that surprised. Being trans has nothing to do with it. And particularly if someone if taking hormones, they might not notice a lack of a period.

What this is, though, is a massive case of medical neglicence. Regardless of whether the person is trans or not.

@Superfood would you say the same to any woman who underwent a hysterectomy? Or indeed any elective surgery?

I thought that pregnancy tests were compulsory before surgery? I had a mundane surgery and despite being a lesbian who's never been with a bloke, I was given one.
No arguments, standard as people fib, or are in denial sometimes, or unaware of pregnancy status.

It does very much sound like a terrible error on the part of the hospital.

As for judging the patient, I'm fairly sure I'd still be a bit judgy even if the patient wasn't trans, because anyone sensible in that situation who was in a sexual relationship, hadn't had a period and was experiencing nausea would have done their own pregnancy test. But legally speaking, I'd say all the fault was with the hospital (assuming the facts are as reported).

Having googled placenta accreta, this is when the placenta is too low down and attaches to the area used for c-section. It apparently is but c-section from about 35 weeks is required. Google suggests there is up to a 7% risk of maternal mortality.

As for testing for pregnancy as standard. I had a hysterectomy. There was no way my uterus would have held a baby so I wasn’t tested afaik, albeit the hospital may have just drawn enough blood to check during the pre-op bloods. Idk. Private medical btw. However, this is a very different scenario and I agree, a test absolutely should have been taken.

Many cis women dont find out they are pregnant until they give birth'

'Many'? Really?

sure, but they still know it is a possibility, and don't go charging in for hysterectomies without checking