Stickering

[washingsomuchwashing]

I sticker regularly to raise awareness and they all get removed. Why is this? Other stickers aren't. Why can't people express their opinion? Took great pleasure in ripping down the Trans rights poster that's just appeared in my neighbourhood. If my stickers are removed, so will their poster.

Cereal seems a bit weird.

I mean, finding leaflets telling customers that the store has mixed sex changing rooms is a fair protest I feel.

Now that the issue is in the news, discussed broadly, and we have WORIADS, the situation has shifted massively.

Four or five years back, when no fucker would talk about it, when there was a total media blackout, when Mumsnet FWR was one of the very very few places anyone could whisper wrongthink, it was hugely important to raise awareness.

It always gave me great joy to see other stickers out in the wild - a little nod to other women, from other women, a little badge of courage.

Women working with no budget, pure grassroots action, in defiance of the prevailing orthodoxy, wanting to take a stand and non-violent protest action, stickered to get the word out.

It's worked.

And I mean that we can give you more instances of female people being abused in female single sex spaces AND that males who are trans ARE committing sex crimes if you are genuinely ignorant that they have been occurring.

Then you can tell us kit, genuinely, how many women and girls are you willing to consider acceptable collateral damage to allow males into female single sex spaces? How many will be enough for you to believe that the risk is not as 'low' as you believe?

1? Well we know it isn't 1, because you have just written :

"I really do think there is a massive fear here of trans people and while the example of the person in Scotland attacking the girls and then being free to go into a women’s hostel is shocking this doesn’t mean all transgender people or all men would do this."

So... actually, that is 2. 2 girls are not a high enough number to say 'enough, women and children need adequate safeguarding and something is failing here'.

So, how many will it be? How about in Scotland, the male who picked up and raped a girl who thought that they were a woman offering the girl a lift home? Does the fact that the male used their penis give you doubts that your 'males on testosterone have low risk'? I believe that male was on testosterone blockers and had developed breasts so... does that count towards the collateral number? it was just at the start of this year.... did you miss it?

Or the girls raped in the USA at their school toilets by a male student. Two different schools, because the mother of that male student wanted to cover up the crime. And get this.... the father of the girl was actively silenced by the school and shamed for stating that this should never have happened...

Are those two girls enough collateral?

What about the two girls, 6 and 9 (I believe there was a third as well) who were exposed to an aroused penis in a female only section of a spa. And when their mothers complained, one was offered a discount and told there was nothing the spa could do. And one was very vocal and was demonised across the world for complaining. And women actually told this mother that her daughter should have been told to not look at male's penises when they are aroused and being lowered directly in front of them in the spa a metre away.

Are those two girls also now enough collateral? Yes or no?

The list is fucking endless. If you are ignorant of these cases, you have not done balanced research at fucking all, you have simply believed the same fucking trope you have tried to deliver here on this thread.

I keep some in my wallet to stick on top of any TWAW propaganda I see (university town, quite a bit of it)

I've told this story before, but you seem to be new to the forum.

When I was seventeen, I came out of a cubicle in the ladies' toilet to find a middle aged man in a wig and lipstick and skirt standing at the sinks, rubbing himself up against the sink. At the time, I didn't know what a 'transwoman' was - don't think the term had been invented. It was very clear that my presence was providing excitement.

I said nothing, just got out as quickly and quietly as I could.

So, that's generally why I don't want to share toilets with a male, whatever he is wearing, and whether there are locked cubicles involved or not.

I know @Helleofabore it's so fucking tiresome. Even without all of that why is it deemed so horrendous just to say No, I don't want to share toilet spaces with males, whatever modifications they have made to themselves? and have that view respected and accepted. Why is that choice questioned and beaten down? Are women not entitled to that choice? Why is it when women do not consent others take that as an opportunity to shame them?

In contrast men who say they don't want women in their spaces have that view respected and accepted without any pushback, why not women?

(Don't worry I know the answer to that but be interested to see if @Kit7 responds)

It will be interesting to see if @Kit7 will respond. I suspect it will not get a response because the reality is, who the fuck thinks that they can just hand wave away the hugely complex needs of women and children in using the female toilet in a way that gives them any fucking credibility at all?

I know there are posters on MN who have no children, light periods and who have lived very simple lives where they never have had to use the female toilet for anything other than the very limited range of activities as described as 'just wanting to pee in peace'. I know that they are shocked by the actual reality of many women and children who do in fact have needs outside that narrow range.

I also know there are some posters on MN who are male and fucking have NO IDEA yet feel they can lecture women on these things. I make no assumptions about what sex Kit is or what their life history is. But it is clear they and some other posters, have no concept of women and children's realities of toilet use.

Or they simply couldn't give a fuck!

Interested in your thoughts on my (and others) comments earlier that stickering in a public bathroom is just making work for a cleaner doing a difficult job for minimum wage - and who's likely female.

Outside where graffiti or posters are left to decay, fine - I don't think it's a great thing to do but apart from making somewhere look less nice it doesn't actually matter. But I do think any stickers or graffiti that will create work for someone else is a bit of a shitty thing to do.

It is instructive just how deep the misogyny runs in posters like @Kit7 - the males desires must be prioritised at all times, women's needs, their desires, their choice? Nah fuck that. And justifying it all with the poor men/TW tropes with all the usual excuses too.

Oh... look...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11022631/Trans-inmate-27-impregnated-two-women-New-Jersey-jail-moved-mens-prison.html

Another male who supposedly has no sexual function.... gosh. Is that another 2 women who are acceptable collateral? Because supposedly males with trans identities have their testosterone reduced and lowered 'sexual urges' enough to be considered safe with women?

How about the many women in the Californian prisons that are being issued with condoms because of the 'lowered sex urges' of the males in their prisons....? That surely should count towards proof enough that males are just as capable of sex acts and crimes after 'transition'.

Oh. I forgot Amy here in the UK who bravely came forward and said to a parliamentary committee about her experience of sexual abuse at the hands of a male prisoner. Who she said also showered while masturbating in full view of the women. Oh... yes, that is right... women and girls should look away from males who do this or who are fronting up naked with erections. It cannot be happening though... because it is just 'one'.

Oh... yes, and then there was the anonymous woman in a women's shelter who described the male who she was forced to share a room with here in the UK who also was masturbating to porn in the bed in the room she had to sleep in. As a sexually assaulted woman...

No... it is 'just one'... and it is all just 'fear' and 'hysteria'.

When you see it, you really cannot unsee it.

Oh. and some women are anonymous so their stories can be written off and not counted.

Here, it has not been happening at all. (this thread needs a content warning for anyone who goes and reads it)

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3348290-It-will-never-happen-resource-thread?latest=0

So... how many women and children are acceptable collateral to enable some male's to achieve their demands? I doubt I am the only one who wants to know.

And if it takes stickering to raise awareness, then carefully placed stickering will be done.

Then, let's talk about the students who before school broke up protested in the UK about the loss of single sex toilets in their schools and add that to the dangers that a poster posted upthread of unisex facilities.

Mind you, there are growing reports of parents being told by their children about avoiding those unisex toilets now because their children don't want to listen to the couples in the next toilet cubicle having sex, let alone peeing next to male student who is listening to toilet noises to bully the girls.

So, hey.... unisex toilets are such a great solution aren't they?

Can we add those girls who are now excluding themselves from their school toilets to those impacted by policies created to allow males into female spaces or to provide them 'inclusive' facilities?

Students don't want these facilities. They are harmed by these changes made without any consultation with them.

But they are just more collateral in the name of prioritising male needs ahead of their female needs. All good... nothing to see here.

Don't forget the girls who are deliberately not drinking during the day at school so they don't have to use the toilets @Helleofabore risking dehydration and/or UTI's.

Then how about the schoolgirl in Coventry who had the toilet door kicked in by a male student wanting to photograph her on the toilet and was injured by the door hitting her.

Man, those unisex facilities are so safe, so wonderful at ensuring privacy and dignity, all hail the unisex spaces, yay. Women and girls are so lucky being treated so well and considerately in this day and age.

Or the boy in the girls changing rooms at one particular school masturbating in front of a schoolgirl, the parents of the schoolgirl complained to their Labour MP and this was dismissed as merely a peer on peer issue because the boy had adopted that very special identity and said the magic phrase that brooks no opposition or safeguards.

Another one added to the list of collateral damage.

Let's compare the stats shall we? Number of TW physically attacked or sexually assaulted in men's toilets - no recorded cases anywhere that I can find, perhaps you could find them for me @Kit7, there must be some as you are so sure it happens?

It's strange how you @Kit7 berate and try to shame us by using the NAMALT line and how mean we are to 49% of the population and yet you don't apply the same standard of undue fear of the male population to transwomen. Hypocritical much?

Yes good idea to deface someone’s property for your vendetta.

Are you equally prim when your mates are throwing soup at women, nailing rats to doors and pouring piss over themselves?

@TastesLikeStrawberriesOnASummerEvening

Awesome!

My teenage son has spotted 2 in our village in the last couple of weeks and sent me a wee photo. It is reassuring to know I'm not the only one in the village. 😄

Although I had an inkling due to the blatant ribbonning that has occurred a few times in recent years...

Well, remember that ribboning has been considered a hate crime too and is included in those hate crime statistics that kit posted up thread.

Along with stickering being considered a hate crime too. Something that we discovered when we started to pull apart those hate crime stats.

Just sharing this fab infographics about toilets. It's good to get the language right and consistent. Most of the time we are talking about mixed sex toilets. Please share!

Also one of my recent stickers. Back of toilet door in services. A bizarre advert for young girls to be reading!

I agree with previous poster back if the loo roll holder us a fab location.

god I remember that. at times it felt like I was losing my mind. this MASSIVE injustice was happening and no fucker would talk about it. in fact when you said logical things (like 'that's a man') you got your mumsnet account disabled. It was a huge education for me.

back then I did do some stickering. it felt like the only thing you COULD do, we were being so thoroughly silenced.

I haven't done it for years, it doesn't feel so urgently necessary now

And a more scenic location.

That didn't post!

I forgot to add another thing I have done in the female toilets - expressed milk and dumped it! Sure I expressed it in the cubicle. Can you fucking imagine though the comments of a male walked in and heard the pump?

I mean, from reading the social media of prominent transitioned males, we already know they listen and mock women’s toilet noises. Because they do it gleefully online.

And no, I fucking would not want to be rinsing the suction cup and bottle in front of any male above the age of about 8.

I even know women who have breastfed in female toilets because they don’t want to breastfeed in the public view.

But hey… women just “pee” in the toilets and hey… unisex toilets are so great!

No need for any fucking privacy and dignity at fucking all!!