If you're non-binary...

[danyellspanyell]

What does it mean? What does it mean to you?

I'm not looking for GC responses to this - the GC take is obvious. I genuinely want to understand what this means.

This came up on my Instagram and the comments were full of people saying they have the same struggle and I honestly can't get my head round what it actually means to be non-binary, particularly if you're happy 'presenting' as a woman (which you biologically are).

What material impact does this non-binary-ness have on your life?

No. I think the discussion is important, but respectfully. I dont even think it's wrong think, regardless of my views. I'm all for young women having robust discussions.

But I'm not going to glorify mocking and laughing at their peers.

Mocking of peers and laughing at their expense is wrong full stop.

Good grief!

Can you please point out to me where I have said anything about 'you' rather than an incident that went in similar directions?

I have ignored your insults and your comments, but this is getting rather weird. It really is almost like you take everything someone writes as some kind of personal insult.

I don't think you have to "glorify" it. The teacher should approach it that way IMO, that they shouldn't mock other children for any reason, but not focus on about how trans is a sacred identity that no one can criticise.

"Yes, the common thread in all these cases is that people have freedom of speech and belief. We can think and say what we want. You do and I do. It's a good thing."

It really really is.

In your first example, don't you agree that the word 'accept' is a better desriptor for not only what you mean, but also has acceptable meaning for those that don't buy gender theory. A word we can all agree on?

You think people should be accepting of how others might identify themselves, and most here would agree that they can and do accept that.

Respect has a different connotation .Respect means 'look up to' or 'admire' or hold in 'high esteem'. The problem with that is that you cannot respect somehing you have a fundamental issue with - and certainly not if that something is imposed upon you, or make demands on you.

I think we can all have respect for people's basic humanity - but not for political ideologies or certain types of religious belief.

I think it’s a bit unrealistic to think teens don’t take the piss out of each other - as adults we can agree it’s wrong, as is bullying etc but to think it doesn’t happen or makes teens extra awful is lacking understanding

I dont think they dont take the piss, nor do I think it's more awful.

Whar I think is that a good discussion should be encouraged in a safe space for the children.

Adults have dignity at work. 2e shouldn't be letting teenagers mock each other in a classroom.

They don't laugh in people's faces - that would just be rude, and in most cicumstances uncalled for - but they do eye rolls and smirk and laugh in private. But that is, indeed, how they view it. There is a younger generation coming up and through who are tiring of the whole thing. Why should some pupils be given 'over and above' treatment to all the others - especially when that person is still just a girl or boy in their class, like every other?

If any teacher said that theyd he sacked.

They're influenced by prejudice views of their elders though.
I'd be horrified if my child was mocking and laughing about pupils in their class for any reason.

If any teacher said that theyd he sacked.

If they said what?

Pupils with an obvious physical disability, or who have a health condition such as diabetes obviously have to be given certain specific additional considerations. Pupils with additional learning needs most often have a classroom assistant if they have a statement) or else they go to a specific unit within the school when necessary.

They're influenced by prejudice views of their elders though.

Are they? How would you know? I thought you were a fan of lived experience, they, like me, probably see the attention seeking in it.

....and if a pupil has sadly lost a parent or close relation the class will most likley be informed and everyone will be aware.

If I believed in this stuff I would definitely "qualify" as NB, and I know how I'd explain it. But I don't, and I'm not so I won't.

This!

I think I would definitely qualify as non binary according to the definitions that I have heard from non binary people. But I’m secure in myself as a person and happy to be a non conforming female, if other people have stereotypical expectations of me that’s their issue.

The solutions are deeply embedded in culture and in education. That Queer Theory has been so successfully inserted into the way that young people are now encouraged to frame their developing self is a real problem - with no short term or easy solutions.

Have you ever listened to any detransitioners speaking about how they first came across trans or NB identities and how thought " Yes, that's me"?

I agree that Queer Theory is so often ignored yet it really has shaped so much of what is now considered acceptable in schools and in the way that children think about themselves and others.

And listening to detransitioners is really important too, imo. Because they tell us honestly and clearly what were the influences that had the most impact on them.

If you had a truly open classroom discussion - without any compulsions and with the protection of free thought and speech you might not approve of what many puils would actually say and think on this issue.

If you had a classmate ( a 14 girl) who came back to school after the summer holidays and decided that she is now NB and wants to be called 'Gizmo' wouldn't you laugh ( even discreetly?). Lots of pupils would and do.

Given that nonbinary can apparently mean anything at all, is indefinable and inexplicable, I think it's a kind of apophatic belief.

It's considered a safe choice. I'm not choosing to be female, but I'm not changing sex, so I'm in this 'agnostic' space here, free of sex, beyond sex. The Switzerland of Gender.

It is a sanitised, unrealistic, and idealistic idea, that we can opt out of our sex. And what is missed is that a neutral position is ALSO a position. We cannot escape our mortal existence (except by the obvious) and we cannot escape our sex.

Perhaps just classic avoidance. Instead of confronting the implications of living in a sexed body in a sexist world, we attempt to just opt out.

In that sense, it reminds me of puberty blockers, of the idea that by avoiding puberty children can avoid their sex.

Which ignores the fact that missing puberty ALSO has implications and consequences.

Everyone laughs and jokes when people they know come out with ridiculous propositions - even if not to their face. Even you, I'm sure. That is what irony and humour are based upon. The foibles of human nature and comedic situations.

Not at all! It is mst often the most intelligent and mentally stable pupils who catch on to the ludicrousness of it all - and see it for what it is ( in most cases attention seeking - for whatever reason that may be). My 16 year old niece is a wonderful girl. They go along with it in a way - because that is the social expectation - but they are not buying it at all

.. whata that got to do with anything?

If I was 14 yes but as an adult I wouldnt encourage it.

@Ereshkigalangcleg the phrase, I forget exactly about trans not being able to be questioned. There would be no place for that.