If you're non-binary...

[danyellspanyell]

What does it mean? What does it mean to you?

I'm not looking for GC responses to this - the GC take is obvious. I genuinely want to understand what this means.

This came up on my Instagram and the comments were full of people saying they have the same struggle and I honestly can't get my head round what it actually means to be non-binary, particularly if you're happy 'presenting' as a woman (which you biologically are).

What material impact does this non-binary-ness have on your life?

Dont all of us judge from our lived experience?, is that not how the world works?

Well yes, that's why I trust mine rather than yours that I am getting second hand.

I dont need to though.

I dont believe they are attention seeking based on my knowledge and you do.

That's fine
What you cant do is claimed that my views are skewed by my lived experience and yours arent. I might not agree with you but I'm not dismissing your experience other than saying I think there are people who make everyone look bad. Ie the attention seekers. I'm not dismissing your own personal experience.

I dont believe they are attention seeking based on my knowledge and you do.

That's fine

Yes

No , but they can be considered equal in weight albeit opposing.

They can be. Or not.

Fair enough. 🍷

If someone's identity requires that everyone affirms it, even against reality, then it is not a solid construction. A healthy sense of self is self sufficient and does not require continual validation. As mentioned before it is up to individual parties in any relationship to agree on terms and frames of reference - but beyond that the feelings of the individual are irrelevant.

If someone's identity requires that everyone affirms it, even against reality, then it is not a solid construction. A healthy sense of self is self sufficient and does not require continual validation. As mentioned before it is up to individual parties in any relationship to agree on terms and frames of reference - but beyond that the feelings of the individual are irrelevant.

This. It's definitely not healthy or sustainable to depend on compelling others to lie for your self worth.

And I think we see this with many genderist young people. They perceive any disagreement with their worldview as a threat.

Exactly.

I dont necessarily believe people who need validation, and I agree they do, are attention seekers. It's a much bigger picture than that.

Because it is!

No offence, but this seems to be entirely a problem in your own perception.

Projection, in other words.

You admit upthread that your thinking is muddled and I'm getting a lot of hostility emanating from your posts. Not quite sure why, as you've been repeatedly rude and women have been very patient in overlooking your tone in order to try and discuss the issue.

Isn't it just!

I mean you can claim that, but it's not rremotely true .

Because it is!

It isn't, really though, is it? Only in a very skewed version of reality.

I don’t use the term Gender Critical either unless I really need to.

I am a sex realist but in this I agree with wild, I would prefer not to need one. I have always rejected those kind of labels.

No.

But since the disagreement does exists, in which way would you prefer for it to be labelled/defined/described?

I'm not personally attached to 'GC' at all - in fact I think it is far too limited and superficial to have any real meaning. It has just become a stand in for a wider critique of gender ideology.

I dont know you so I cant make the ascertain about you personally but someone vulnerable will always feel more threatened than someone who osnt.

We know that there are threats to womens identity in this discussion, that's without saying.

It cant be totally inconceivable for clearly intelligent posters to imagine that those on the 'other ' side might feel threatened by people who dismiss their beliefs.

You can say it shouldnt impact them, but that's easy for someone to say when they're not the one in their shoes.

Yes Ereshkigalangcleg and RebelliousCow re: language - what you said

Can you explain in what way?

The thing is, I'm not critical of gender as a concept. I accept that it can be two separate things to people.

I just think the excessive labelling is unnecessary. People have views.

I'm agnostic rather than atheist but I dont think I need a word at all.

In life, people are going to disagree with your opinions, even ones that you hold very dear. Mere disagreement is not a threat to you personally. Many of these people have multiple mental health challenges. But it's not for others to tiptoe around their feelings, they need to learn resilience.

Yes. And unless we can agree on meanings it really does become incoherent and confusion reigns. And it really does seem to become very subjective about people’s own perceptions of which person’s boundaries and beliefs are prioritised.

A clear example up thread. My words changed from respect to accept because that poster decided that's what I meant.
The proclamation that I cant say people should respect pronouns but people can state with conviction they shouldnt.

The conviction with which its stated that nb cant police your language by you can not only police theirs but dismiss them and call them a whole host of names.

We cant shame women for not using pronouns but we can call people attention seeking for using them.

I think the fact I was identified as being hostile and rude in the light of posts in my direction sums it up.

And beside anyu8ng else, it's now a slight on a discussion board, not an official legal panel, to admit your views are grey and muddled in different areas on what is a very complicated topic. IRS black and white and that's that.