If you're non-binary...

[danyellspanyell]

What does it mean? What does it mean to you?

I'm not looking for GC responses to this - the GC take is obvious. I genuinely want to understand what this means.

This came up on my Instagram and the comments were full of people saying they have the same struggle and I honestly can't get my head round what it actually means to be non-binary, particularly if you're happy 'presenting' as a woman (which you biologically are).

What material impact does this non-binary-ness have on your life?

BTW I think the response to the original post is - feminine and obviously female girl who decided she's better than not like other girls wants to know how other girls in the same boat cope with feeling like a bit of a prat when they have to declare their specialness because no-one has noticed it, what with them looking exactly like the thing they're pretending not to be.

In general, I take it to mean 'doesn't have enough to do and so is filling the time talking about themselves online'

I’m GC, but I don’t think non-binary is a stretch from GC beliefs.

If I bought into gender ideologies, I would be NB as I think my gender/sex is irrelevant to most aspects of my life. I’m female presenting, but my personality traits and interests fall much closer to being masculine. I HATE being called “Mrs” or “Ms”, or “wife” (it makes me feel icky, as I don’t ‘identify’ with what those things mean, even though I am those things), but I feel indifferent about being called him/her/she/he. Now I think about it, I don’t love “woman” or “lady” either, but I’d be okay with “girl” or “guy” - even if it is a bit patronising.

But in my mind I can’t move past that regardless of the above I am objectively female and that can’t be changed. And I am indisputably a woman and a wife. The same way I’m 5’6”, even if I have heels on that make me seem taller… I am still the same height.

I guess I meant if you had had genitals of the opposite sex to the one you were born with, that were created surgically for the purpose of transitioning.

What I was trying to get at was that non-binary seems quite a nebulous kind of 'I don't feel like I want to be put in a box' feeling, not connected to physical form. But nobody wants to be put in a box.

I've never understood why people can't accept the physical form they were born with and then behave however they want to behave, without having to claim a special status.

Bingo

The definitions of non binary and agender / nongender seem to be work in progress. I'm agender for sure :- gender is a bunch of stereotypes that do not help my life, and fuck that.
I'm non binary too, then, because sure why not?

I think 'sexless' would be a better description as they seem to be referring to a binary which can only be the two sexes.

I think it's just, if you are growing up in an environment/social group that says that woman and man refer to feminity and masculinity rather than your biological sex, and you don't feel like you for either stereotype then there needs to be a word for it (or more than one: non-binary, agender, genderfluid, etc).

It's difficult to say, as gender critical feminists do that gender doesn't/shouldn't exist/isn't important, because members of your social group believe that it does and perhaps identify as trans or perform the stereotypes strongly. So you think you are an exception to not have a strong gender identity.

It's also that they lack the perspective of older folk that it is okay to just be gender non conforming and not have to justify it/make a big deal about it. School is a crucible of social pressure and Uni too is a lot about trying to find your tribe/discover who you are.

And there is the element of social status coming from not being boring/privileged.

I don't think it is a coincidence that this trend came hot on the heels of the trend of girls being hyperfeminine/sexualised/glam on Instagram culture. And is all in a context of childhood clothes and toys being extremely gendered in advertising. Everything was saying gender/sex was salient and important.

I don't identify as non binary. But I think I might have done if I was at school today without the perspective I have on sexism and gender as an adult. I grew up in the girl power era where the idea was that all the important sexist injustices had been resolved hollow laugh

I may have (but I was incredibly cynical of ‘trends’ and fashions) because I had a very glam mum and sisters (very feminine and beautiful) and then there was me and my tomboy sister. I didn’t feel like any of them.

For myself it came out of being told both that being female made you worth a lot less than men and that I was terrible at it. I also experienced a lot of abuse that left me very disconnected from my body

This is a test?! I haven't revised!

Same. I can see the logic of wanting to opt out of sexism.

But then if you can be either biologically female or biologically male and identify as non-binary, are they the same non-binary? Is it a single category?

Have you considered asking AFAB non-binary people themselves, or reading what they have to say rather than on a GC forum? Don't lead with "biologically you are a woman."

Maybe because they can’t articulate their belief system without resorting to sexist stereotypes?

I am. AFAB non-binary.

You can ask me anything you like, DadJoke.

An old acquaintance (in her 40s) has just 'come out' as non binary and I do not want to be rude and ask her why (she is still using female pronouns before anyone has a go).

Surely if you’re non binary you accept people using any and pronouns for you? Isn’t that the point?

OP I think it’s pointless to try and get your head round it tbh as there is so much confusion even within that community. I saw something on Instagram where someone non binary had top surgery…. So trans then, not non-binary? If you were NB you’d see yourself as both/all genders and therefore be fine with your boobs?

Non-binary sex is still as ridiculous. Intersex people are still either male or female according to their chromosomes. Sex is binary.

I think non-binary people fall into two camps

Woah, @fourlegsandatail! Are you saying that non-binary people are ... binary?!

Agree with others that non-binary is just gender critical, hideously distorted into its opposite.

I try just to hear tomboy when people say non-binary. I was a tomboy as a child. Loved that there was that space. Loved that no-one gave a toss about it.

When I hear 'non binary' I just think of people who want to be in the 'in crowd' and thought a bit unique - as if nobody before has ever developed some individualistic character. The crazy thing is that we now see people well out of their teenage years adopting such labels.

I was at the opening of a refurbished gallery yesterday, and there was a bloke - well over 6ft, with a blue beard, a purple knee length skirt, taking what looked like official photos for the press release. I discovered today he is caled Phil, he is autistic and he " is non binary", using they/them pronouns.

He must have been in his early 30's. Of for goodness sake! I've no issue with the blue beard and the skirt - as for the public pronouncements and identity declarations - no thanks, and so what. It just seems so juvenile.

I am Observed Male At Birth Agender Non Binary (OMABANB) but you can call me Captain Spicy for short.

I have got to the point where all this just exasperates me.

I have a now adult GC who "identifies" as non-binary - I respect her/his/their wishes as regards pronouns and love them to bits - and tell them so all the time.

But all I can see is that they are bloody unhappy/confused/miserable and I am sorely tempted to say "Look, dress how you will, behave as you will (whether it conforms to gender stereotypes or not), but get on with leading a happy and useful life - and maybe stop thinking about yourself such a lot and find something kind and productive to do."

There - I've said it - I've been bottling that up for a long time!

I am a widowed grandmother and live alone now (although lots of contact with family and friends) and I just think that life is too darned short to be pissing about with all this stuff when there are hills to climb, views to see, dances to dance, games to play, fun to have before it is too late.

I am not binary. (Is anyone binary?)
But I don't know if that's the same as non-binary.

Totally agree - it's the same as gender critical but for people who've swallowed the party line on "man" and "woman" referring to gender rather than sex.