If you're non-binary...

[danyellspanyell]

What does it mean? What does it mean to you?

I'm not looking for GC responses to this - the GC take is obvious. I genuinely want to understand what this means.

This came up on my Instagram and the comments were full of people saying they have the same struggle and I honestly can't get my head round what it actually means to be non-binary, particularly if you're happy 'presenting' as a woman (which you biologically are).

What material impact does this non-binary-ness have on your life?

And it really does seem to become very subjective about people’s own perceptions of which person’s boundaries and beliefs are prioritised.

Indeed. Humpty Dumpty - who is master.

Speaking with a 16 year niece old fairly recently, she said that the pupils in her school adopting trans and NB identities are " attention seeking". That is how many young people view their classmates. The pupils in my daughter's form group ( she's a teacher. I used to be) laugh and joke about the whole trans/non binary 'thing'. It is not just older women.

If someone is expecting something out of the normal range of address -that indcates that they are seeking special attention; to be given special consideration - doesn't it?

It's been quite amusing watching a poster on this thread popping between this thread and the thread about passive aggressive comments on Mumsnet and updating it in real time. Almost passive aggressive in itself!

A clear example up thread. My words changed from respect to accept because that poster decided that's what I meant.
The proclamation that I cant say people should respect pronouns but people can state with conviction they shouldnt.

The conviction with which its stated that nb cant police your language by you can not only police theirs but dismiss them and call them a whole host of names.

We cant shame women for not using pronouns but we can call people attention seeking for using them.

Yes, the common thread in all these cases is that people have freedom of speech and belief. We can think and say what we want. You do and I do. It's a good thing.

That was me😘 One comment. The ridiculous one by the OP. No other opinions.

You missed out the part above me in that thread where others did that too.

I find it amusing watching random people pop up just to stir up trouble because I dont fit the narrative personally.

I'm glad they find it so funny to be bullies of vulnerable teens and that the teacher allows that.

In answer to your second question , absolutely no. Do I really need to explain how ma g people in life need consideration?

It's been quite amusing watching a poster on this thread popping between this thread and the thread about passive aggressive comments on Mumsnet and updating it in real time. Almost passive aggressive in itself!

It is rather

Righto 😆. I'll wait to see if this one comes up too I suppose!

In terms of 'not fitting the narrative', have you come up with a definition of NB yet?

And it has! 😆

Just for you 😘😘

"The proclamation that I cant say people should respect pronouns but people can state with conviction they shouldnt."

Blimey. If this is aimed at me, I suggest you have misinterpreted what I wrote. I am all up for a discussion about what I said and what you think I said.

Of course it is a much bigger picture than that........factors such as social media and the way it manipulates and channels people's feelings about themselves also have a role to play. People write little self selected bio descriptions about themselves on their various accounts - which they would like people to define or associate with them. Public statements.

For example, Owen Jones has items such as 'anti-facsist', 'Socialist', 'he/him' so that others ( who are strangers to him) can identify his belief structure or what he believes he stands for.

Also, Increasingly people are encouraged to display all of the intimacy of their personal lives for public inspection and comment. Look at Harry and Meghan. They said they wanted a quiet life out of the media spot-light - but then go on to court public attention and inspection of not just their own, but of their famly's private lives and utterings too.

Maximum public exposure of what is essentially private to us.

Indeed. It's fascinating listening to teenagers talking about this. What's so depressing is that the useful idiots encouraging this in children completely ignore the extremes that the very vulnerable are going to - demanding double mastectomies etc. It's terrible to watch.

That a supposedly civilised society has stood back and watched as children are groomed and harmed by such inane beliefs is unforgivable.

Yet when children are NB which is a perfect red flag before it may reach trans and surgeries, rather than trying to support we just go 'nah' and push them further.

all sorts of kids get bullied in school, loads of them have different mental health things going on, Trans is one tiny bit of it. There are loads of eating disorders, self harm, suicide ideation, school refusal. I can imagine Trans not seeming v special amongst all that. I am in London tbf……..

I must admit this has the feelings of a late night interaction from early last month. It is like de ja vu.

That doesnt make it okay 😳

I'm glad they find it so funny to be bullies of vulnerable teens and that the teacher allows that.

There might not be any pupils with a gender identity in the class while they are doing it. Are you suggesting they be punished for wrongthink?

Nope.
Is your strategy to be rude , patronising, demand answers and if all else fails just accuse them of trolling?

I've tried to make my point by beginning to ignore your posts .

I think most of us are more than aware of the intense fragility of trans identities - and why they feel so threatened. But that still doesn't mean that people must/should validate those identities or accept the undelying theory/ideology behind them.

I think these identities are symptomatic of a very fragile mental health environment - which has coalesced around of a variety of contemporary factors

Would it be okay if they sat and laughed and giggled and mocked any other characteristic as long as there was no
One there?

I think a class full of young people discussing the issues is a fantastic idea personally, but that's not what was described here.

Do you want them punished for wrongthink?

Can you explain what you mean here? Who is saying 'nah'? and pushing them further where? To what?

And who is 'we' that you are talking about?

I hope you are saying none of its ok and not just the trans kids being teased! Secondary school is tough, teens can be horrible, I’ve had to take my daughter out of school because because she was being bullied and had some of the stuff I mentioned above going on

I agree. But sometimes terms come to be used as stand ins/symbols for something far wider or more encompassing. It means you don't have to keep repeating basic foundational positions or arguments everytime you discuss an issue. Of course as a short hand term it is imperfect - and may mean slightly different things to different people.