Women's rights general conversations - Thread 6

[Kucinghitam]

Continuation of Thread 5.

There is so much excellent information and so many active discussions on FWR that I wondered if it would be useful to have a thread to sort of "cross-fertilise" between them - airing little thoughts or vignettes that wouldn't themselves merit their own thread, to highlight other posts/threads of particular interest or to point to notable developments on fast-moving threads so that casual observers know where to look.

(For example, "the X thread has meandered onto a fascinating discussion of Y" or "Poster P's amazing analysis on thread Z might have relevance to the scenario in thread W" or "Has anybody noticed this recurring theme that keeps coming up??" or even "Random bloke asked me to smile while I was choosing onions in the supermarket, grr"- that sort of thing).

I have a WordPress domain and cannot figure out how to use it. I am techno-incompetent and I really need somebody to physically sit with me and show me how to do it.

I've been known to go with "My gender is irrelevant, my sex is female" but that's probably too arsey for work purposes.

The opening article is in a Bad Place written by a Bad Person, which means Good TRSOHers cannot sully their delicate eyeballs with it lest their morally pure souls are Sullied by the exposure (please imagine air quotes and eye rolls in the relevant places).

But it's mainly the thread's excellent analysis by the brilliant FWR regulars that I wish to call attention to.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4905740-trans-the-new-ideology-of-the-ruling-class-article?

It's funny, in my mind many of us would be considered among the kind of elite they're talking about - university educated in professional jobs. So we're traitors!

That thread was very interesting. I've just read this piece, also on 'elites', but with a rather different emphasis. These guys are dead against 'DEI' too, but does that make them the good guys? I hope posters can access it. No doubt some pointy-heads at Labour HQ are already taking notes.

https://www.newstatesman.com/ideas/2023/09/rise-new-tech-right-iq-cognitive-elite

Shameless plug of own thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4906809-sex-is-irrelevant-in-anthropology

watching, @BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn

Good grief, another piece of fantasy, masquerading as scientific technique.

Well now!

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/mumsnet_live_events/4906840-zoomchat-with-bridget-phillipson-thursday-28th-september-11-12

Happening tomorrow.

Well, in addition to Bint's infuriating anthropologists and TRSOH redefinition of "scientific" we also have the Aussie HRC bravely battling for TRSOH redefinition of "truth":

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4779154-tickle-vs-giggle?reply=129496057&utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4906730-australian-human-rights-commission-decision-prohibits-female-only-events-for-lesbians?

But, all together now, 🎵 LaNGuAge EvoLVes 🎶 NoBoDY iS sAyiNg ThAt HuMaNS cAn CHAnGe SeX 🎵

www.theparadoxinstitute.com/read/trans-ideology-the-modern-hydra

Can't argue with any of that, Brit. Obviously that's in the US, but most of it is generally applicable. I was thinking the other day (and it's not an original thought, I'm sure) that the main point of these precious GRCs, that so few people actually have anyway, must be to usher in this concept of 'legal sex', which is the real Trojan Horse.

Yep, I don't think we can say "It is biologically impossible to change sex." often or loudly enough. The author is correct, that is at the heart of the many-headed hydra. I think if I was someone who had been born "intersex" - and I hate using that word because I know it's not popular among those people but my brain is tired and can't think of the alternative - I would be spitting mad at the way the TRAs have used them as an example of how we can change sex. All of those people are in fact either male or female with genetic discrepancies. There are two sexes and those sexes cannot be changed no matter how much someone wants it to be so.

@MouseMinge I think if I was someone who had been born "intersex" - and I hate using that word because I know it's not popular among those people but my brain is tired and can't think of the alternative

Born with a DSD? I'm not 100% sure what that actually stands for, because I've seen the first D as "disorder" and also "difference" and the second one as both "development" and "differentiation". Sometimes in the same paper!

Yes. I understand DSDs are sex-specific. Proving the binary, if anything.

Thank you both. I'll try to force that into my brain. If it was me I'd be happy if people could refer to my condition using the correct language and not shitty GI language.

This week's news (Lawrence Fox at GB News, that poor girl murdered in public by her "ex-boyfriend," the NewSpeak-style mangling of reality by the AHRC) has really got me down. The thread running through all this <gestures gloomily around> is what Germaine Greer so wisely pointed out years ago: "Women have no idea how much men hate them."

VSD (‘Variation in Sexual Development’) seems to be the most recent way of phrasing it, but Disorder of Sexual Development is probably the most accurate?

Personally, I think ‘disorder’ is a perfectly good medical term (disorder/condition/syndrome/disease all have distinct meanings) but I do understand why it might feel hurtful to those with a DSD.

I am torn between the desire for plain and accurate speech and not wanting to make people feel shitty (but that’s what got us into the TWAW mess!)

(copy and paste from https://www.healthwriterhub.com/disease-disorder-condition-syndrome-whats-the-difference )

• A disease is a pathophysiological response to internal or external factors.
• A disorder is a disruption to regular bodily structure and function.
• A syndrome is a collection of signs and symptoms associated with a specific health-related cause.
• A condition is an abnormal state of health that interferes with normal or regular feelings of wellbeing.

It seems that Fox and Wooton have been suspended by Gbeebies and that Ofcom is investigating the station for allowing their awful live discussion. I think that's a positive, if even GBN sees that it's absolutely unacceptable.

Is the Bridget Phillipson zoom thing going ahead?

Help needed, if anyone's interested.

I can't say too much about it, but I have a professional involvement in medical education. In a recent project, we had to consider "inclusive" language for maternity services. It was slightly fraught but eventually we got something that was clear.

However, there's something related in the offing and I note that the steering group will have an EDI rep as well as subject matter experts etc. Unusual in this area.

In anticipation of problems caused by inaccessible but medically essential communications, I'm thinking of a formal risk assessment. What services are for women at present? Maternity (inc ante and post), cervix screening, breast screening. What else? And then, of course, we will need the numbers of affected individuals by group - women, transmen - for each risk we are managing.

I am unable to find anything reliable about numbers of transmen giving birth, though the Mail said 22 in Oz alone in one year. Numbers of trans people I shouod be able to get from the census (bearing in mind the biases).

Any thoughts or numbers or anyfin' at all?

Birth stats are tricky - often they use 'trans' to cover both transmen and non binary, with most actually being the latter. Very different risks.

Sometimes the cruel "f you!" part of me thinks that if transmen, transwomen and non-binary people are stupid enough not to know that they haven't changed sex and should therefore ensure that they do things like go for smear tests, etc, then that's on them and if it causes them to not find out soon enough, maybe they should have thought about that. That's the cruel part of me. The kinder part of me, not the "be kind", but kinder, is aware that the GI system has them so deep in the delusion of actual sex change that they may think that none of that refers to them anymore although I'm pretty sure that when you're a transman giving birth you must be aware that you're at least a little bit female.

Today I am mostly a bitch on wheels.

@MouseMinge Today I am mostly a bitch on wheels.

Well, if that's all it takes then can I join the bitch-on-wheels club? Pretty please?

Weeeeeeeeeee!!!