Janice Turner on Labour u-turn

[southbiscay]

Is it safe for women to trust Labour again?

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b5a6df40-2d70-11ee-aede-28bc53acbdb8?shareToken=463658bee75ab918efe6b0320e42aad3

This is progress:
"This year Labour Women’s Declaration, a group created to defend the Equality Act, will hold a fringe event with shadow cabinet speakers inside the main conference centre, advertised in the official programme".

They were barred at last conference.

Janice seems prepared to accept that this is progress. I suppose it is.

it's very hard to forgive though.

and it taught me a hard lesson about just how much of a shit politicians give about women's rights. They care about what they think will buy them power and influence. The end.

Lisa Nandy is now claiming she'd been 'unduly swayed' by young trans activists in her team.

What a pathetic excuse. Anyone with an ounce of intelligence or even the ability to read should have very quickly seen what they were up to and given them the boot.

That really won't wash, Lisa.

I respect Janice's opinion on and, if she's correct about Labour Women's Declaration having a place at the conference then I think that's significant. I will wait and see what happens.

Spot on Bernard. Despite their frantic denials this HAS been coming up on the doorstep and the shitshow of transitioning children, Cass and the impossibility of sounding like a grown up / decent human being while defending Stonewall, Mermaids etc has finally arrived on their doorstep.

yes, I'm torn because I genuinely respect Janice Turner's opinion and she seems to give this some weight.

It just feels so cynical to me though. I don't believe it

and to have wilfully ignored the shit show that is medical experiments on children? how can I trust these people?

I thought all her shite was based on "a young trans person in my constituency".
Stupid cow, who hasn't even got the courage of her deluded convictions.

Oh I still don't trust them I'm deciding nothing until I've seen what happens at the conference and read their manifesto.

Oh it's definitely cynical. But we know the Tories are not generally on the side of women.

I want to vote labour. I'm just not there yet.

The optimist in me is starting to think politicians are learning that ignoring women for some trendy activists doesn't bring home the vote and so I may be able vote based on health, education and the economy and not worry about biological facts that should be a given.

But there's a big but. What about the Lib Dem's? What happens in a lib/coalition? Will women's rights be sacrificed for the sake of a cosy pact? I'm not confident that they wouldn't be.

It is progress. What this whole debate has taught me is that people in power can be incredibly stupid and refuse to see what's staring them in the face. I can count on two hands the MPs I really respect now. I think it's significant Wes Streeting has seen the writing on the wall, he's a very astute politician and he's seen which way the wind is blowing. I have so little respect for any of them, I really struggle with their lack of critical thinking. If they're so crap on something I know about, what on Earth are they doing over stuff I know nothing about?

Given it mentions Angela Rayner is still mired in transactivism and also that she has the potential to be the first female leader, I would be very wary. That said, Labour have never had a female leader, so it’s not as if they’re likely to elect one any time soon.

Harriet Harman turned into a decent enough politician, having been (with full hindsight) bizarrely swayed into supporting PIE. Lisa Nandy may well have been swayed by young Labour, or whoever. It’s pretty obvious that happened in the SNP, where young people were highly valued and thus the situation was ripe for infiltration.

I don't think it's progress. It's two faced shitheads lying to save their skins. Lying to transpeople claiming to support them when they thought that was "in" and now lying to us claiming to support us.
They'd sell their own grandmother if it got them into power.
Pathetic.

Do you think that they've realised they stand to loose/have already lost a massive set of voters?!
Also I saw something today about 4 Labour MPs receiving large donations from a Trans lobby group?
ooh dear Labour!
As for Lisa Nandy, I am so disappointed in her. I don't think I can trust Labour again.

Yep. Surprised people are going with it.

I don’t think it’s progress either. They’ve changed direction because it’s in their interest to do so - what is to stop them changing again if and when it suits them?

I desperately want a decent centre-left party to vote for, but Labour ain’t it. I can’t forgive and forget for how they’ve thrown women under the bus in recent years.

Also I saw something today about 4 Labour MPs receiving large donations from a Trans lobby group?

I think one of those donations was as much as nine years ago, but it should not have been accepted, and I am not yet persuaded that Labour have seen the light.

Making it easier to get a GRC does nothing to safeguard women in vulnerable situations, the definitions of 'woman', 'man', 'female' and 'male' etc need a lot more clarification, and protection of children and vulnerable adults from gender ideology and the very problematic Queer Theory is not even on Labour's radar yet.

The fact is, they're very likely to win the next GE, any change, any pressure we can put on them now is positive. I won't forgive or forget ever, it's fundamentally changed what I think about politicians, but if the penny has dropped it's a vote loser, good.

What a rat. 😡

I do believe the U-turn is cynical. Most Labour policies now are cynical, derived from electoral calculation rather than principal.
But with the state of British politics being what it now is, I've totally given up on anything better than that. All that matters to me is ensuring that this particular weaselling around in pursuit of votes sticks. That they continue to believe it is in their interest to make sane, fair and evidence-based policy in relation to trans issues.
So I'm prepared to give them sweeties my vote if they continue moving in this direction. Only just, though. And only because the Tories are so intensely dangerous at the moment I am willing to set the bar depressingly low for any party that can get them out of power.

I think it might be harmful and counterproductive to trash their U-turn. By acting as if we trust them to some extent we might shame/incentivise them into positions that genuinely respect women's rights..

You know what, around 8 years ago my mum, a teacher (at that point in her mid fifties) expressed concern at the growing number of her students who were claiming to be transgender, expressing safeguarding concerns about the moment generally.

I was horrified, told her I didn't agree with her views and shut the conversation down.

Then, not long later, I'm not really sure when or how, I read something that made it very very clear in my head that there was genuinely something to be concerned about and suddenly everything she was saying just kind of dropped into place with crystal clear clarity for me.

We both now quietly get on with ensuring safeguarding is at the front of every decision made in our respective organisations.

So I'm not going to judge anyone doing a U turn.

As long as they mean it.

I believe this is as good as it gets. Turning back on Self ID, belated apology to Rosie Duffield, LWD stands at conference.

Expecting anything substantially more is like expecting prominent uncompromising policies on Brexit, it's never going to happen.

Starmer is inching his way to power, one maddeningly drawn out modified policy position after another.

A bit more detail on how they'll modify the GRA, and their policy for trans conversion ban, is about all we can expect to get.

What they really need to say is that they agree to the EHRCs recommendation on amending the Equality Act to say biological sex.

Until they do that adult human female means nowt.

https://twitter.com/PompeySteph/status/1684799825168973824

Meanwhile back in the labour "reality"

Whilst Labour are still selecting TRAs as parliamentary candidates, it doesn't matter what the Labour spokespeople say - the Labour TRAs will be in the Chamber voting to oppress women.

Labour have finally realised that women's votes matter. Too little too late.

Lisa and Keir were both happy to shit on women when they thought our votes didn't matter.

It wasn't that they didn't understand the safeguarding concerns. It's bloody obvious to anyone with half a brain.

And what have they really said anyway. Do they still think men count as women? I need them to spell it out without the wishy washy evasive statements.