Janice Turner on Labour u-turn

[southbiscay]

Is it safe for women to trust Labour again?

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b5a6df40-2d70-11ee-aede-28bc53acbdb8?shareToken=463658bee75ab918efe6b0320e42aad3

Great analogy! 😄

And as for Lisa Nandy, are you fucking kidding me?!

I can fully believe that she was 'unduly led by young party activists' but that's not what she told Dr Julia Long. She told her that she has a young, sad "trans" person in her constituency, that's why she said she believed men should be housed in women's prisons.

I sssume she's now telling the actual truth, because no one would beclown their self like this if it werent true, surely... You'd think she would try to put a spin on it and say something like 'this is such an important issue that I've been doing a lot of research and have come to realise that it's much more nuanced than I initially believed'. Still stupid but at least somewhat dignified.

More than that, I'm disturbed that she found the activists' assertions credible.

She is both craven and stupid. I can only assume that she must be in such a safe seat that a carton of orange juice with a Labour rosette would win.

Has Starmer disowned this?

twitter.com/martinmonmouth1/status/1683525047019872265?s=46&t=WHoOZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

(You can find the longer version by searching Twitter, although the Penis News original seems to have gone AWOL, or become hard to locate)

I would have more respect for Nandy if she just said that she was wrong.

Like all messaging thru that period, it was quite the cognitive dissonance watching an ostensibly intelligent and educated woman, a feminist I'm sure she'd claim, but during the height (or is that rock bottom?) of No Debate, calmly and cooly state that if a man claimed he was a woman, we shouldn't question him, and if that meant a rapist would enter a women's prison, then so be it. The ID of the individual was pre eminent.

Are we really to believe she was easily swayed by arguments from activists and the Twitter hordes, or that her belief in her own mind was so paper thin, that she could go against her better instinct?

I see many parallels with Brexit, another true believer cause, a force of mind issue, with absolute populist activist pressure, and a zeitgeist to fall in with.

Some Tory MPs incl ex cabinet ministers are already starting to admit their complicity with that project.

From the Janice Turner article:

The Labour elite keeps its gender views quiet, but key figures — Bridget Phillipson at education, Rachel Reeves, the shadow chancellor, Steve Reid at justice and Shabana Mahmood, national campaign co-ordinator — are quietly gender-critical.
Labour’s most senior gay man, the shadow health minister, Wes Streeting, a former Stonewall education officer, has “been on a journey” in recent years, alarmed by LGBT policy overreach, such as the case of Sarah Summers, a Brighton rape victim denied a single-sex support group. One of Labour’s most generous donors, Fran Perrin, daughter of Lord Sainsbury, has strong feminist views.

This is a massive relief to see. Being able to name names of GC MPs is essential. It makes other MPs feel braver to put women first, and makes the male supremacists among them so much more obvious. Thank you as always Janice Turner for your fantastic support of women all these years. On this issue and others.

I really hope more of us will get to have more time and energy to tackle the many other issues for women that don’t include this one. I feel slightly more optimistic about that for future years, now that it is beginning to be that there can be a plurality of views talked about in Parliament and the media. Let’s see but thank god at least that things seem to be moving on from 2019. I really do think the pre pandemic world is another country, they do things differently there.

absolutely this!! Am I going to forget what’s happened so far? No but this is an opportunity to keep on pushing. For many years with Labour it felt the door we were pushing on was firmly closed not it feels that it’s open a tiny crack. We keep on pushing until it opens.

stonewall, LGBT foundation, mermaids et al will be having Labour MPs out for coffees & chats as we speak. If we don’t keep pushing on this side the door will be pushed closed again. Now is the time to push even harder.

and look at all we’ve achieved - without the women in this board I honestly believe self ID would be law by now

So after years of MNetters calling for Labour to change because "i feel political homeless" Labour now start to change their stance but now the call is "i can never trust them again...they are just being populist to win votes"

I suspect most who are so critical of Labour would never have voted for them in the first place.

they d rather stick with the Tories and their glowing record on protecting female rights and spaces.

I'm a guy and like a pretty woman as much as the next guy, but is it really necessary in 2013 for the faux glamour pics?

How can anyone have any faith in the likes of Lisa Nandy going forward? A grown woman in a senior position in the shadow cabinet was swayed by immature trans staff? Did she not have a brain to look at what the impact of these demands would mean to women and children?

It is good news that Labour are beginning to understand and allow debate. Slowly, slowly ever so slowly.

@RealityFan

It's never male politicans that are pictured all dressed up is it?

Where can I see the Lisa Nandy quotes?

It's weird!

I can't read the article because aim not a subscriber but the first sentence pops up talking about poverty under a picture of a woman in posh evening gowns!

What ridiculous vanity.

And yet… because of previous obfuscating language used by the very people poster’s are expressing their distrust in, and the actions even recently of the party towards groups that have been excluded, have been refused stalls at conference AND abusive behaviour overlooked towards Rosie Duffield, people are reluctant to believe this is a true change.

But yeah… shame away!

What about you, are you so quick to support anything that the political party of your choice announces as policy without doing any critical evaluation first ? Or are you just here to shame others?

I thinkit might be harmful and counterproductive to trash their U-turn

I daresay a few activists will already be pointing to many recent threads on this board and saying "nothing you give them will ever be enough so why give them anything?"

So easy to say this about TRAs. Who cares anyway. They’re not going to stop using whatever

No need to do anything because a TRA wants us to

Was it in the main newspaper or in one of the weekend supplements?

The styling will have been done by The Times. For all we know it could have been part of the ‘deal’ to get a profile article in the paper. But of course The Times would never ask a male politician to dress up like James Bond or a red carpet attendee or something in order to do a profile of them.

Lets just stick to pragmatism and maybe we might (just might) get somewhere.
MPs don’t have to agree with me on everything, I don’t agree with them on everything. They just have to vote for some sensible laws occasionally where it really matters. So I will encourage that.

I wonder how the LDs will react to Labour’s apparent change of stance. Will they start moving too, or will they double down? My guess is double down because they’re generally more captured and will see it as an opportunity to single themselves out as the “be nice” party. It would fit with Ed Davey’s persona, beliefs and leadership style too.
However, it might be a big big mistake.

I thinkit might be harmful and counterproductive to trash their U-turn

There’s quite a few posters who were keen on stopping women saying anything at all 🤷‍♂️

They now seem to be welcoming change but not due to their own input

Plenty said stop criticising Labour before this, party before women

I see it's not taken long for the, 'if you're not convinced you were obviously Tories all along' narrative to start up. I have to say, it's not helping to persuade me that this change is being made in good faith.

If Labour stalwarts really want help things along then may I suggest that a 'We-understand-why-you're-still-suspicious-but-we-will-do-whatever - it-takes-to-regain-your-trust' kind of approach would most likely have a better outcome? That, I think, would be the smart thing to do.

Good question borntobequiet and I bet you’re right.
I couldn’t agree with you more Theeyeballsinthesky

Give them a chance. They're still adjusting to women's shrill voices.

Labour’s most senior gay man, the shadow health minister, Wes Streeting, a former Stonewall education officer, has “been on a journey” in recent years, alarmed by LGBT policy overreach, such as the case of Sarah Summers, a Brighton rape victim denied a single-sex support group.

So he’s trying to make out that his transition from member of a secret group campaigning to get disobedient women ejected from the party to now being the frontman for media-placed overtures to women in the party who’ve been abused by members of that very group is entirely down to his own journey of discovery of thinking and reflection on the impact on women - and absolutely nothing to do with the successful campaigning by the Conservative Women group and Miriam Cates and Kemi Badenoch securing their party’s support for bringing an end to no debate, thus enabling the Conservatives to start ruthlessly targetting Labour’s open goal, ten months before a possible election?

Anyway, whatever his motivations, as slothtoes said in their clear-headed post, now’s the time to build on their new comms campaign and press Labour for some meaningful commitments.