Looks like Italy have banned surrogacy

[ColinRobinsonsFart]

twitter.com/surrogconcern/status/1684294419300732931?s=46&t=_Rfk59cXnQlTYarlcFuu0w

Meloni (Italian pm) is a homophobic bigot. She's setting gay rights back by decades. I can't stand the sight of her.

But banning surrogacy is the right thing to do. It isn't just banned for gay couples (though that was clearly Meloni's target), it's banned for everyone. Domestically and internationally. Every country should do this.

The rest of it... the Italian government hate gay people. It's awful.

No, it doesn't bring them into line. I seriously doubt there's any other European country that threatens people with jail terms for hiring a surrogate abroad! Typically they'll a) not allow it in-country and b) not recognise it for purposes of birth registration/citizenship (unless the father-to-be is also the biological father.)

I agree. But it makes much more sense to ban international surrogacy first, if you're truly against it. Domestic surrogacy could be tightly regulated and controlled, if a country wanted to do so (I would still be in favour of a domestic ban). Otherwise you are saying to people - that's a dangerous and unethical practice. You're welcome to do it, but go use some other country's poor women and burden their health services.

Sorry I got that wrong @GrumpyPanda. So the new law will imprison international baby traffickers. Not got a problem with that.

But Mussolini is not the General Supreme on Italy now. In fact, I think he might be dead.

Also, glad they have outlawed International surrogacy.

The birth cert should be a statement of fact.

This. I'm delighted that selling babies and exploiting poor women is banned. Otherwise the Italian government can get in the bin.

Good news

Very good news to see a government calling a halt to the trade in babies.

This is a good thing. I also agree that a birth certificate should be a statement of fact.

I hope surrogacy and egg/sperm donors are banned. It’s never about the children.

@turbonerd And Meloni’s Fratelli d'Italia party has a direct lineage back to Mussolini’s fascism. The man may be dead but the spirit is alive and well in the current Italian government.

It's possible to see something like this as good in isolation even if we don't agree with every part of the bigger picture.

I also agree that birth certificates need to be simple facts rather than what people wish.

This is great news. I hope other countries clamp down on the trafficking of women and children through surrogacy too.

LGBT families shouldn’t be able to buy a baby from a poor European woman anymore than non-LGBT families. HTH.

I want to know the outcomes for the mothers and babies. Are mothers exploited? Do the babies grow up to be happy?

I'm still leaning towards being against surrogacy, just because no one has a "right" to have a child, and no child (or anyone) should be bought. But I'd like to hear about the outcomes. I imagine some surrogate mothers can make a bomb.

I imagine some surrogate mothers can make a bomb.

And some may have life-changing injuries or die, and some may be literally left holding the baby if the purchaser renages on the deal.

true, you would need to make sure the contract is fair.

Or ban it entirely

that would be simplest, yes! i think UK has a good balance though, you can if, say, you want to help a family member, but you can't do it for money. which is why people go to the cowboys in America...

Which is impossible. No contract can effectively safeguard all three parties.

you would need to make sure the contract is fair.

And enforceable. Hm, who is going to have the better lawyers to fight a law case between people in different countries, the woman or the baby-buyer?

And that doesn't address the risk of physical (and potentially mental - PND etc) harm.

Can anyone remind me what the consensus view on MN was on the subject of Tom Daley's surrogate sons? Was it 'oh, how sweet' or was it 'womb renting bastard, the government needs to ban it'? The Italian government does ban it and the reaction is 'but they're fascists'.

There was a range of views on it, just like this thread

We're not talking about that, we're talking about surrogacy.

This is excellent news for women and children and brings Italy into line with most of the rest of Europe.

Agree. I support this specific thing.