Looks like Italy have banned surrogacy

[ColinRobinsonsFart]

twitter.com/surrogconcern/status/1684294419300732931?s=46&t=_Rfk59cXnQlTYarlcFuu0w

The inherent risk of pregnancy means that there is never a risk free surrogacy and to me, no, surrogacy is never acceptable. Creating a baby for the specific purpose of gestating it in another women and handing that baby over like a product (even to a loved friend or family member) is wrong because this is a child. Not to be commoditised in any way.

Women can agree with the Italian government on this issue while acknowledging that their laws need work in other areas.

Good. I don't agree with surrogacy under any circumstances.

Oh we’re back in the times of ‘Hurrah for the Blackshirts’ again?
Oh goody!

🙄

And don’t forget, Mussolini made the trains run on time…. Fascism isn’t all bad, right?

Have you got anything intelligent to add to the discussion @LemonLymanDotCom or are you just going to shout nazi scum?

I think the collective may be back.

Is railway efficiency a fascist government trait?🤔 Someone tell the Swiss, quick!

I take it you're in favour of commoditising babies, @LemonLymanDotCom? Can you explain why? And presumably you've no concerns about the problems particularly inherent in sourcing babies overseas?

So all the people who have been telling me that the Tories are literally fascists have been lying 'cos the trains definitely don't run on time here.

How do you get through life with such polarised and absolutist thinking? You must struggle so much. Are you now so anxious that you cannot support any organisation or person in the world, just in case they don’t fully live up to the purity you demand in all aspects of life?

How in the world is saying ‘this is good news, now they need to fix other things’, in anyway worthy of vilification? Except if you support surrogacy maybe….

Is this the fastest invoking of Godwins Law on this board ever?

It's good news. No human should ever be for rent or sale.

@JanesLittleGirl yeah, that might be a touch of hyperbole 😂

@NotBadConsidering I don’t think it’s mutually exclusive, but tell me what else Mussolini was renowned for (outside of being a murderous facist dictator)

@ErrolTheDragon Where do you draw the line at cheering on fascists? Will it only be when they come for you?

It is wonderful to see posters who are deriding people supposedly for being fascists through bizarre ‘agreeing with one law change’ connections missing the glaring fact that by doing so, using the same logic, those posters support the commoditisation of infants, and the rental of women’s bodies. They fully support exploitation of other humans!

Yet feel such a wonderful glow making ridiculous posts effectively calling people Fascist for declaring making those same acts illegal….

The hypocrisy is wild here.

Errol will burn them fascists with her dragon flames

think it’s great that surrogacy has been banned

babies should not be bought and sold neither should women’s bodies

tell me what else Mussolini was renowned for

A poster on the ‘Aliens???’ thread says he found an alien spacecraft and covered it up, @LemonLymanDotCom.

HTH with your intellectual debate.

Where do you draw the line at cheering on fascists? Will it only be when they come for you?

I'm doing no such thing. Some of their policies (ivf only for heterosexual couples, so excluding lesbians etc) are entirely wrong.
How are you with cheering on people who want to commoditise babies and exploit women in poorer countries?

Actually, I’m usually a huge fan of nuance and shades of grey, but not wanting to support fascism is often a great starting point.

And you are aware that Fratelli d'Italia ARE real life fascists? With a history tracing them back to the Italian neo facist movement starting in 1945?

I don’t understand how you can know that and cheer ‘hurrah for the blackshirts, cos they’re getting surrogacy right’. I genuinely don’t.

Also a political party’s central ideological core isn’t just an ‘other thing’ to be ‘fixed’. You can’t just tweak fascism. However, you can make it more palatable to the masses with good PR.

Tell me what else Mussolini was renowned for

Invaded Abyssinia (now Ethiopia).

If exploiting the resources of poor countries, as under European colonialism, was not ok, why is it ok for rich Western couples to exploit the women of poor countries today?

This law has everything to do with the rest of the homophobe policies of the current government. Surrogacy was already illegal in Italy, this law extends the ban to include surrogacy done abroad. It disproportionately affects lgbt families who, unlike heterosexual couples, are obviously unable to 'hide' the fact of having sought surrogacy. You may agree or disagree with surrogacy, but to think that this particular law, passed under this particular government and this particular time is unrelated to an increasingly hostile environment for gay and lesbian parents and their children (!) is extremely shortsighted. This is not about 'protecting women' (whatever that means), but about protecting this rightwing government's idea of what a family should look like.
Greetings from Italy from a very worried lesbian mum

but not wanting to support fascism is often a great starting point

Is it fascism to believe human beings should not be bought or sold?

Are you really comfortably aligning yourself with slave owners of the past?

don’t understand how you can know that and cheer ‘hurrah for the blackshirts, cos they’re getting surrogacy right’.

That's why no one is doing that. The tweet at the top of the thread was, afaik, cheering on a radfem group who'd campaigned against surrogacy.

Now, can you make a coherent defence of surrogacy? Or are you cheering that on?

Creating a baby for the specific purpose of gestating it in another women and handing that baby over like a product (even to a loved friend or family member) is wrong because this is a child. Not to be commoditised in any way.

Perfectly and very clearly put, thank you. I have always felt uncomfortable with surrogacy and couldn't put my finger on why.

Funny how no one ever makes this point to those who want to rejoin the EU (one of the earliest and most vociferous supporters of a united Europe was of course Oswald Mosley)

Surrogacy was already illegal in Italy, this law extends the ban to include surrogacy done abroad.

So are you in favour of protecting rich women more than poor ones?