First “out trans player” at Women’s World Cup

[ThomasinaLivesHere]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66299441

I just don’t get it. It’s a woman playing in the World Cup, the Women’s World Cup and they’re non-binary which just means they go by they/them and don’t identify as a woman and this is a celebration? Anyone to question it is closed minded? Didn’t people used to get recognised for achieving something or at least for overcoming actual obstacles.

The UK commentator for Canada's first game repeatedly referred to Quinn as 'she' which was refreshing. Haven't seen any calls for him to be sacked or punched in the face yet, oddly...

Think they are basically a butch Lesbian. Nothing wrong with that! most enbee identified people that look like them seem to be. I do find the use of them confusing though. To me is just means plural :(

literal violence. You've misgendered they!!

Cake and eat it, as always. Quinn says that Quinn is "nonbinary" which, unless theres a new definition since i went to bed last night, means that Quinn says that Quinn is neither male now female. So why does Quinn want to play in the women's team?

In realityland, we all know Quinn is female and as long as she's not doping, she should indeed be in the women's team.

BUT when we argue that men should also play in the team for their sex we are doing a genocide. Which is is?!

Or am I coming from the wrong angle? The sports argument seems to be to have men's sport for "manly" men and "women's" sport for everyone else.

What everyone is forgetting is that almost all the WWC squads are trans players (whether they are aware of it or not) because football is a mans game. So Quinn isn't even speshul. Only the Americans are non-trans cos there its a woman's game. Simples 😏

I know. The article ten plus years ago would read like a parody.

Being a commentator means speaking quickly to keep up with the game so I imagine it’ll be pretty common to stick to one pronoun given that they’re traditionally used as a shorten form and not to validate someone’s feelings.

@NecessaryScene Haha love it. I’ll steal it too.

@Janie143 I like your point! Also we’ll need to think of the poor Americans when it comes to the Men’s cup as they’ll be the only trans ones. No wonder they’ve never won.

I n June, they (Quinn) took the National Women's Soccer League (NWSL) - the league in which they play for OL Reign - to task for "problematic" policies on trans players, which do not mention non-binary athletes.
"I hope the organisation can find space during their Pride celebrations this month to understand and educate themselves on the limitations of their policy," Quinn wrote on Twitter.

So Quinn is an activist who is wanting NWSL to embed the right for non-binary individuals to play, and non-binary can be both male or female. The article goes all around the houses without mentioning the conflict between trans players and female sports.

What I have found particularly frustrating is the number of people in the various comments of this story who clearly don’t get it.. “So, failed in the men’s team so took a place off a real woman”.. “Canada should be banned, this is cheating”. . “They need a separate category for people like him”. When of course the actual story is “Biological female with short hair plays in the correct sex category for their sport”. Really doesn’t help the gender critical side of the argument to be lumped in with people like that with no reading comprehension.. and of course Quinn is doing exactly the right thing:playing in their sex category and not taking hormones.

The BBC article seems to go out of its way to use the "they" pronoun as much as possible? Pronouns did feature heavily in Quinn's 'coming-out' statement ("1. put your pronouns in your bio"; "3. practice using gender-neutral pronouns in a mirror/with friends").

The parochial hyperbole of Quinn's manager saying Quinn is "making the world a much more inclusive place".

I get that poor reading comprehension can be frustrating but to be fair to them the language used in these articles can be confusing to people who don’t follow this much. I think the average person wouldn’t understand why there would be an article lauding a female for playing in a women’s team as it sounds such a non-story and silly. So they naturally think there’s more to it and have become accustomed to similar stories about males in female sport.

The weirdest bit is when they call it historic.

As if in fifty years time it will be a pub quiz quiz

"Name the first non binary player at a world cup"

Quinn recommends practising using gender neutral pronouns in front of a mirror.

Yup, it’s a bait and switch. We’ve seen it before.

So skinny little transwomen like Dylan Mulvaney are seen as the acceptable face of “be kind”. Object to this tiny weird person using your toilets and changing rooms! Goodness me, they would be more likely to give you a quick make up fix and some maybelline samples than threaten you or hurt you, stop being so transphobic, they are just trying to live their brave life and perfect their cats eye liner flick.

Except that next time it’s not an underweight little Dylan clone in the changing room with you, it’s a six foot tall man in pink satin and a doubtful wig with a police record of sexual assaults and other violence against women, or a man whose sexual fetish about being a woman means they think they are entitled to have access to changing rooms where 16 year old competitive swimmers are changing, or a misogynist TRA who thinks wanking over the toilet seat will persuade mouthy women to get back in their boxes.

It shows people who watch sport that you can be non-binary and still play fantastic sport.

It's a personal belief system - makes as much sense as saying "You can be a Hindu/vegan/Lib-Dem supporter and still play fantastic sport".

It's not a physical challenge or limitation that would affect your playing in any way, like being e.g. blind, diabetic or 93 years old.

If this non-binary shit actually meant anything, Quinn would have respectfully declined a place on the team, on account of the Mens/Womens competitions representing a binary division. Which Quinn couldn't possibly have anything to do with, being definitely not a man or a woman.

I therefore conclude that non-binaryness is a load of old bollocks.

Is she on testosterone?

No.

I don’t agree. If we take that approach then transwomen can argue that they belong in the women’s category. Better to totally disconnect any gender identity from the binary sex categories for sports, sex segregated spaces etc.

honestly, Quinn is doing nothing wrong. I find non-binary a nonsense too but I can’t get worked up about someone wanting to identify that way as long as they do not think that magically entitles them to opposite sex spaces/awards etc.

I get that poor reading comprehension can be frustrating but to be fair to them the language used in these articles can be confusing to people who don’t follow this much.

I agree with this. Even the words 'transman' and 'transwoman' are confusing to many, many people, because - unless you already know - there's no logical way of discerning whether the 'man' or the 'woman' part refers to what you biologically are or what you want to identify as.

If anything, linguistically, (imho) I think it would make more sense for them to mean the opposite of what they're usually used to mean. I'm convinced that a very high proportion of people who will staunchly agree with the statement that "TWAW" are actually mistakenly affirming the opposite of what they truly believe.

Im not worked up about Quinn - I just them deeply tedious the same way I find every NB I’m not like the other girls I’m special ne person tedious

Quinn has had "top surgery". I don't understand how having no breasts is more non-binary than having breasts?

Most women “feel differently” from other women because we’re all individuals not a hive mind. Whenever someone says they ‘don’t identify as a woman’, I always think they must have led quite a sheltered, conservative life because they believe if you don’t conform to stereotypes associated with women you must not be one.

IMO, this person is just attention-seeking. I’ve seen them online so many times but there’s nothing special about them. They need to get out more and realise women don’t have to like make up/like babies/wear dresses/be demure or whatever else crap they subconsciously believe.

@BreatheAndFocus Exactly! How can you possible say you feel differently to women? How do you know how they feel?