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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

First “out trans player” at Women’s World Cup

94 replies

ThomasinaLivesHere · 26/07/2023 22:12

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66299441

I just don’t get it. It’s a woman playing in the World Cup, the Women’s World Cup and they’re non-binary which just means they go by they/them and don’t identify as a woman and this is a celebration? Anyone to question it is closed minded? Didn’t people used to get recognised for achieving something or at least for overcoming actual obstacles.

'Historic' - the World Cup's first out trans player

There is much discussion to be found about transgender athletes in sport. In Australia and New Zealand, one has been helping drive their country's bid for World Cup glory.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66299441

OP posts:
viques · 28/07/2023 09:13

BellaAmorosa · 28/07/2023 00:18

In the Australia Vs Nigeria game, the commentators said that one of the Nigeria players trains with her club team in the morning and then spends the afternoon at a paediatric hospital researching childhood leukaemia. Other players run sport programmes for disadvantaged kids. Some players have medical degrees, some are engineers, musicians, systems analysts. One Manchester United player (not at the World Cup) is a hod carrier and works alongside men on building sites.

Every single one of this generation of European, Asian, Antipodean, African and South American women has had to fight just to be able to play the game. Many don't even get paid - £11,000 a year is the worldwide average salary for women footballers.

In that company, there is absolutely nothing special about Quinn. She can take her patronising advice about practising pronouns and stick it.

Excellent post, and apart from the football, this is what the focus should be - the amazing players who are living their lives as women and playing football for the love of it. Not entitled western women who have been allowed to think that their self promoting babble means anything.

BonfireLady · 30/07/2023 09:40

Quinn has been a useful talking point in our household, with a conversation that has continued to unfold over the last few days. For context, my 14 year old daughter plays football, loves the women's game and has recently started questioning her own gender identity again (there was a previous period last year where she did so, but then settled on "being female"). We're working through this.

I had spotted Quinn (on this thread, thanks OP!) before my daughter did and had kept quiet.

My daughter has been talking to me again recently about gender and casually told me about this "really inspiring" player in the world cup. We talked for a while and I listened to why she was so inspired. All the way through the conversation each of us accidentally misgendered Quinn - my daughter more than me. She agreed with my suggestion that it was probably because it felt very weird talking about a player in the women's world cup who didn't want to be a woman. At this point I was receptive to how inspiring my daughter found Quinn, regardless of this "minor" point that we left hanging in the air.

Part of my daughter's admiration was that Quinn hadn't felt the need for testosterone to feel so good about themself. Obviously Quinn would fall foul of sport doping rules for taking testosterone but it was still helpful as a talking point. My daughter is gradually beginning to see that taking testosterone could be regretted later but she's still on that journey of thought. The second part was that my daughter believed Quinn hadn't had top surgery.... so I assumed this was true. Then I came to this thread and opened up the conversation again, off the back of that being incorrect. We both agreed that it would be awful if Quinn regretted this surgery later. My daughter accepted that it was probably not great role-modeling that Quinn has photos of themself grinning with "top surgery" scars.

We haven't spoken about Quinn for a few days but yesterday I couldn't help smiling lots when I heard my daughter getting very cross that the commentators were talking about male footballing greats during the women's game. And also that none of the BBC notifications come up for the women's matches (I assume the England ones will 🤞)... "It's like nobody cares about women's football!!!" were her words. After a bit more conversation around this, I left the idea hanging that perhaps this helped to increase the problem that so many girls were now identifying out of being girls.

So thank you Quinn for being you 👍👍👍 You're certainly inspirational in our household.

⚽⚽⚽⚽⚽⚽

BellaAmorosa · 30/07/2023 20:29

@BonfireLady
Sounds like you are handling the situation very wisely.

BonfireLady · 31/07/2023 08:39

Thank you @BellaAmorosa

My reason for posting was two-fold:

  1. A de-lurk: I'm active on several posts but I don't comment on all of them. I think there are lots of lurkers out there who don't quite know how to join in yet (I lurked without a single comment on the FWR for a long time, getting my head around everything). Thank you to everyone who posted on this thread. Without it, I wouldn't have been forewarned ahead of my daughter discovering Quinn nor be so readily armed with facts that I could calmly use as needed. Without that, I would have been knee-jerking and possibly saying it in a way that shut down rather than opened up the conversation.

  2. in case it helps anyone else in my situation. There are different ways of approaching being a parent of a gender-questioning child. Some affirm, some do the nuclear opposite and forcibly remove their child from influence and influence from their child (Erin Friday, for example - to be fair to her, it worked). Mine is more of a tortoise approach, with a firm goal in mind to a) stop by daughter from wanting to harm her body and b) help her address her significant mental health issues without a bias towards gender whilst also finding ways to ignite the things that make her happy. Not easy and it doesn't always feel like I'm winning when things slip backwards, but over all things are going in the right direction.

BellaAmorosa · 31/07/2023 19:59

@BonfireLady Good luck - fingers crossed for you both!

Littlepinkstarsbyradish · 02/08/2023 02:35

Ourladycheesusedatum · 27/07/2023 13:41

Fucking misgendering, already. And you an adherent to the cause.

Fuck me if you cant get it right within a forum where you have time galore to type, how are we supposed to manage in real world situations with angry people.

I’m so sorry, haven’t logged in for a while and this was a late night post

I wouldn’t deliberately misgender someone and will always apologise when it happens.

(in real life and also online)

imed · 02/08/2023 07:11

Well Quinn is taking their non binary self home now. 👋

BellaAmorosa · 02/08/2023 07:31

Headline:
First out trans player to exit major football competition at group stage!

NotBadConsidering · 02/08/2023 07:45

I watched the Australia vs Canada game. Quinn is not even that good. Surrounded by women of higher quality doing amazing things even if you just restrict that to football things, not off field things.

The way pronoun choice elevates the mediocre to a status they don’t deserve is disgraceful.

imed · 02/08/2023 19:14

@BellaAmorosa GrinGrinGrin

imed · 06/08/2023 13:09

Well Megan Rapinoe has just missed her penalty and the USA are out of the World Cup.
Shame (not)

Justme56 · 06/08/2023 13:22

One thing that got me about the BBC article and Quinn in general was the sentence that they will not be taking T or having any other medical interventions whilst playing professionally. There seems that this is now a given that if you are female and have an NB identity that you will do this? Why? When all the male NBs are taking part in marathons I don’t think I’ve ever seen the question posed about what medical interventions they plan on doing or what hormones they are taking. Is it because they don’t?

CrossPurposes · 06/08/2023 16:04

imed · 06/08/2023 13:09

Well Megan Rapinoe has just missed her penalty and the USA are out of the World Cup.
Shame (not)

Gosh, that made me so happy. Sex traitor.

UncertainSmiler · 06/08/2023 16:24

imed · 06/08/2023 13:09

Well Megan Rapinoe has just missed her penalty and the USA are out of the World Cup.
Shame (not)

Brilliant. She’s awful.

BellaAmorosa · 06/08/2023 16:56

Rapinoe was picked on reputation and social media profile. She shouldn't still be in the squad anyway.

derxa · 06/08/2023 16:56

imed · 06/08/2023 13:09

Well Megan Rapinoe has just missed her penalty and the USA are out of the World Cup.
Shame (not)

She's an absolute horror.

Fenlandia · 06/08/2023 17:16

Megan Rapinoe who tries to justify including men in women's sports because winning doesn't really matter for women and girls sport? This is the quote:

"I’m sorry, your kid’s high school volleyball team just isn’t that important. It’s not more important than any one kid’s life."

https://time.com/6188583/megan-rapinoe-equal-pay-title-ix-transgender-sports-bans/

No need for her to be sad at going out of a world cup when trans kids have it worse!

Megan Rapinoe Discusses Title IX, Transgender Sports Bans

Leadership lessons from the U.S. soccer star.

https://time.com/6188583/megan-rapinoe-equal-pay-title-ix-transgender-sports-bans

WickedSerious · 06/08/2023 19:10

imed · 06/08/2023 13:09

Well Megan Rapinoe has just missed her penalty and the USA are out of the World Cup.
Shame (not)

Oh dear,what a shame.

Never mind etc.

NotBadConsidering · 06/08/2023 21:09

Justme56 · 06/08/2023 13:22

One thing that got me about the BBC article and Quinn in general was the sentence that they will not be taking T or having any other medical interventions whilst playing professionally. There seems that this is now a given that if you are female and have an NB identity that you will do this? Why? When all the male NBs are taking part in marathons I don’t think I’ve ever seen the question posed about what medical interventions they plan on doing or what hormones they are taking. Is it because they don’t?

Except Quinn had had a mastectomy a few years ago and posted a celebratory photo on Instagram a few years ago:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CWjtUIrPsfH/?img_index=1

Instagram

https://www.instagram.com/p/CWjtUIrPsfH/?img_index=1

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