Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
Thread gallery
48
Clymene · 01/09/2023 13:11

Tribunal Tweets have written up the trial. I'm still reading but it's infuriating. He says his memory is hazy because he hasn't had his hormones Angry

https://x.com/tribunaltweets/status/1697362459990933933?s=61&t=gd6tu0Iz6JpyKXGLWMLGjg

RoyalCorgi · 01/09/2023 13:12

It's possible that the magistrates court made an error in law by allowing that kind of "I'm just stupid", "I didn't mean it", defence. Your intention does matter to whether you have committed a crime, sure, but it can be taken that far?

I appreciate what you're saying. At one level it's just another idiot magistrate who doesn't really understand the law - I haven't had much respect for magistrates since reading The Secret Barrister book - and as such it doesn't set any kind of earth-shattering precedent.

Still. It makes me feel extremely uneasy because it's a sign of how seriously these people take violence against women, ie not at all. Perhaps a jury in crown court would have found differently, perhaps a proper judge would have given a defence like that short shrift in summing up. I just feel the verdict tells us something about where we are as a society. If Baker had said "Punch fucking blacks/homos/Muslims", would he have been found not guilty? I doubt it. But women - well, no one cares about women, especially not the kind who have opinions about women's rights.

Clymene · 01/09/2023 13:13

We saw young activists beaten up by Turning Point- one of our trans sisters got beaten up outside pub- 16 year old transwoman got beaten up by Posie Parker and her acolytes

Fucking hell. He lied in court under oath.

Clymene · 01/09/2023 13:19

Court adjourned. Supporters cheers. All rise. Judge leaves. SB presses head through the two glass fronts of holding box and shouts. 'I'm not really an idiot". Supporters all laugh. SB taken out

Triumphant. A torturer and attempted murderer is a hero because he's been transwashed.

The judge is a fucking disgrace

RoyalCorgi · 01/09/2023 13:21

Clymene · 01/09/2023 13:13

We saw young activists beaten up by Turning Point- one of our trans sisters got beaten up outside pub- 16 year old transwoman got beaten up by Posie Parker and her acolytes

Fucking hell. He lied in court under oath.

Yes. And no one's going to check on it, apparently. Did the prosecution not bother to challenge that?

BoreOfWhabylon · 01/09/2023 13:21

Perjury?

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 01/09/2023 13:47

Clymene · 01/09/2023 13:13

We saw young activists beaten up by Turning Point- one of our trans sisters got beaten up outside pub- 16 year old transwoman got beaten up by Posie Parker and her acolytes

Fucking hell. He lied in court under oath.

If you can lie about being a woman despite being born with cock and balls, you can lie about anything.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/09/2023 13:48

What Vito said.

ArabeIIaScott · 01/09/2023 14:23

How can any thoughtful adult, who presumably thinks of themself as a moral person, support a convicted violent criminal calling publically for violence against women?

I just can't really fathom it at all. I would LOVE to ask, say, Clara Vuillamy how she squares supporting calls for violence against women.

But then I feel this when I see my intelligent, thoughtful, moral friends laughing at people throwing milkshakes at public figures or talking about punching Tories etc.

It's highly bloody demoralising, is what it is.

Presumably women who refuse to agree that men can be women, say it's okay for men to use women's spaces, and say that children should be 'affirmed' when they want to change sex are so irredeemably on the Wrong Side of history that it's justifiable to punch them? Is that the rationale?

I just find it weird that I'm out here on the fringes of society, one of the Most Awful, yet I've never, ever called for violence for anyone. I abhor violence. I would stand against anyone threatening anyone (I hope).

But the courts support violent men calling for me to be punched.

It all seems upside down and I'm so fucking tired of it all.

ArabeIIaScott · 01/09/2023 14:24

When I say 'I hope', btw, I mean that I hope I'd have the courage. I am scared of violent men. Mea Culpa.

anyolddinosaur · 01/09/2023 15:19

I've now read the tribunal tweets. The prosecution allowed the defendant to get away with that mockery of a defence without any serious attempt at cross examination. Obviously they didnt really want to win the case.

Posie could probably sue for defamation but wouldnt be able to recover the cost of doing so. I wonder if she could also sue the prosecutor for allowing it to go unchallenged.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/09/2023 15:45

I just can't really fathom it at all. I would LOVE to ask, say, Clara Vuillamy how she squares supporting calls for violence against women.

She has form for this, didn't she start a ridiculous open letter to counter another one condemning the abuse and threats to JK Rowling? Attention seeking, nasty piece of work.

enchantedsquirrelwood · 01/09/2023 15:48

Dumbo12 · 01/09/2023 12:54

It's interesting that the lay person (magistrate) decided to find not guilty, while the people who understand the law and offenders, recalled this offender. Thank goodness "they" is now in prison

That is indeed a relief.

Interestingly my DH only half jokingly said that the magistrate had decided that way because they didn't want to open up a can of worms about which prison this criminal should be returned to. More stupid things have happened...

Clymene · 01/09/2023 15:50

Unfortunately the judge isn't a layperson

He was called to the Bar in 1990 and later practised as a solicitor specialising in fraud, serious and complex crime. He was a Legal Assessor to the Nursing and Midwifery Council Professional Conduct Committee and served as the President of the London Criminal Courts Solicitors’ Association in 2007–08.

judicialappointments.gov.uk/tan-ikram-district-judge-magistrates-court/

Dumbo12 · 01/09/2023 15:52

Clymene · 01/09/2023 15:50

Unfortunately the judge isn't a layperson

He was called to the Bar in 1990 and later practised as a solicitor specialising in fraud, serious and complex crime. He was a Legal Assessor to the Nursing and Midwifery Council Professional Conduct Committee and served as the President of the London Criminal Courts Solicitors’ Association in 2007–08.

judicialappointments.gov.uk/tan-ikram-district-judge-magistrates-court/

Oh dear lord, that is very worrying!

enchantedsquirrelwood · 01/09/2023 15:56

If Baker had said "Punch fucking blacks/homos/Muslims", would he have been found not guilty? I doubt it. But women - well, no one cares about women, especially not the kind who have opinions about women's rights

exactly that was my thought as well.

MontyCCU · 01/09/2023 16:00

enchantedsquirrelwood · 01/09/2023 15:56

If Baker had said "Punch fucking blacks/homos/Muslims", would he have been found not guilty? I doubt it. But women - well, no one cares about women, especially not the kind who have opinions about women's rights

exactly that was my thought as well.

Here's one KC's view threadreaderapp.com/thread/1697018079950016522.html

ArabeIIaScott · 01/09/2023 16:04

MontyCCU · 01/09/2023 16:00

That's just about whether an aggravator would be added to the crime, though.

This seems straightforwardly incitement to violence. You can't get much clearer, surely?

enchantedsquirrelwood · 01/09/2023 16:04

MontyCCU · 01/09/2023 16:00

Yes that is interesting (and sad). But it doesn't need to be aggravated to a crime, does it? It may not be treated as seriously in terms of a sentence (although it should be in my view) but it is still a crime. In fact even if you said "go out and punch the first man you see in the face" it should be a crime. The crime is the incitement to violence in my view.

I know he has posted about the position in Scotland but I assume it's similar in E&W.

Interesting that age isn't aggravating, either.

IwantToRetire · 01/09/2023 16:21

I think the Daily Mail report is virtually the same as the Evening Standard one. So no new info.

I was hoping at least one newspaper would try and explain why he has been detained for breaching bail conditions if a court has decided he hasn't done anything wrong?

Or does this relate to another incident. If not then am surprised his legal team isn't saying he should be released.

I thought the comment that the only regret he had about what he said was being in a male prison.

But also, as has already been said, it is inexplicable that all those organisations who earn their living / get their funding for supposedly campaigning against violence against women have not issued a statement.

And I have said this on other threads, they will all band together to issue statements about the Met Police, the Government but haven't done anything in response to this.

I doubt that even Justice for Women would say anything.

And another aspect of this is that the Met Police will now say we were right to begin with, politicians shouldn't meddle, and this magistrate has made it clear that inciting violence against women isn't a crime.

As if we didn't know that. And again thanks to the "professional" VAW groups who campaigned for misogyny not to be a hate crime we are even further down the pecking order.

re. Making a formal complaint, I did see that only the person concerned or their legal team can raise it. Is this because it is a Magistrates Court, because there is a process that lets members of the public complain about lenient sentences. I wonder if we just shouldn't use that to at least let the justice system know.

Or start a petition to say that Magistrate should be investigated for failing to uphold the law.

OP posts:
IwantToRetire · 01/09/2023 16:24

Complain about a judge, magistrate, tribunal member or coroner
https://www.gov.uk/complain-judge-magistrate-tribunal-coroner

Unfortunately this seems to confirm that because it wasn't a crown court you cant complain about an unduly lenient sentence https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/unduly-lenient-sentence-scheme/

Complain about a judge, magistrate, tribunal member or coroner

How to complain about the behaviour of a judge, magistrate, tribunal member or coroner

https://www.gov.uk/complain-judge-magistrate-tribunal-coroner

OP posts:
RoyalCorgi · 01/09/2023 16:47

The fact that the KC was posting about Scotland (procurator fiscal, hate crime and public order bill) makes me think it wasn't in reference to the Baker case.

And as PPs have said the fact that misogyny isn't an aggravating factor is neither here nor there - it was straightforwardly a case of incitement to violence.

Knowing that the magistrate is a legally qualified person is depressing.

Igmum · 01/09/2023 17:21

The system really isn't fit for purpose. SJB was videoed doing it but the verdict is stupidity = innocence. WTAF

IwantToRetire · 01/09/2023 17:31

verdict is stupidity = innocence

It is also a staggering disregard for facts.

Lets say that for some reason an over excited school boy had got hold of the microphone and said this. Yes open to criticism and wondering how and when boys are going to be educated not to be "just a boy".

But the person who said this is a convicted violent criminal. Well past the age of a school boy. And in the context of the event a clear incitement to violence.

And to suggest it was just a joke / publicity stunt shows an appalling lack of social values and what is acceptable in a public place.

OP posts: