Concerned teacher - 8yo 'trans' child

[EtherealAurora]

NC for this.

A family recently moved to my school. There is a 9yo girl and her 'brother', an 8yo 'boy' who is actually a girl. Staff are to call the 'boy' David (obvs not real name) and use pronouns he/him etc. Children in the class are NOT to be told this is a girl.

Currently, children use mixed sex toilets. However, from September, the class will be split to change for PE into girls and boys.

I am not comfortable with a girl changing in a room full of boys. I think if I suggest they change in another space (eg toilets) this would cause questions to be asked by other children in the class, potentially 'outing' the child. What would be a sensible suggestion for me to make to SLT in this instance?

I know OP isn’t the child’s teacher, but surely every member of staff needs to understand, and support how this is being approached? It’s not ok to tell someone they have to lie as part of their job, equally the school needs a position whereby staff aren’t forced to undermine each other. It has to be addressed by all the adults in the school, as they all have conversations with the children

1 What happens if a teacher hears any of the kids gossiping? Do they ignore it or tell those children off for discussing something that is true?

2 What happens if a parent hears any of the kids gossiping? Do they ignore it or tell those children off for discussing something that is true? Or, if it's off school premises, do they set the record straight?

3 What happens if a child has heard some gossip and asks the parent/teacher? Does the adult lie?

And what would you say to the parents about the older child being expected to be complicit in the lie that her sister is a boy called David? Would you ask the parents what they want staff to say to David when other children ask them about the lie, which will happen. What do they suggest staff say to children when they ask why everyone, including their trusted teachers, is lying about David? What do they expect staff say to parents about the concessions for David that they will ask for even if those concessions make other children anxious and confused. What makes those parents think that it is OK to set up this tissue of deceit because they are not prepared to be honest with their own child.

These people are lying to the school, and they are also lying to their own child by pretending that she is a boy, and that everyone she comes into contact with agrees that she is a boy. They are setting up the lie that people can change sex instead of being truthful and saying you can be called David and live as though you are a boy but you will always be a girl even if you do things to your body in the future that make your body look a bit more like a boys body. Being conciliatory to them and being complicit in their deceit is something no school and no teacher should consider doing.

I'd be looking twice at your headteacher and the management team, OP. They've allowed this to happen.

I’m sorry, but eight?!

It’s all reminding me a bit of when I started my nurse training 40 years ago, when if someone was diagnosed with cancer we’d take their spouse/adult child/NOK aside, tell them the diagnosis and ask them if we were allowed to tell the patient! If not, we were supposed to bluff and fudge if that patient asked us outright (easy as a student nurse, we could just call the staff nurse or ward sister).

Seemed normal to me at the time, but when I told my Dad, he was apoplectic - “It’s my body, I’d be the first one who should know!”

It’s terrible to keep secrets as a professional.

Actually I understand the need for keeping it secret as I am sure the child must be dealing with a lot and at that age even if other children ask an innocent question it might hit hard. Besides they are worried about teasing and all too.

One of my children had an accident (early Years of primary)and thankfully healed quickly but dc wanted it to kept secret and luckily both the class teacher and the slt both actually suggested that we say that dc has hurt his thighs rather than lower back. Trust me it helped so much with the settling in and jist eased of the stress for both me and dc.

Simple. Get the SLT to change uniform rules so that pupils come in their PE kit to school on days they have PE. Much better anyways.

It's a bit shocking that the teachers at this school are lying to the children in their charge about something like this. It's abusive.

And on swimming days?

Come in swimwear and wear it all day even after being in the pool?

See, I’m not having a go at anyone here, but there aren’t simple solutions if you go down the “this is a boy honest!” route.

How do you deal with a child asking “is that a boy or a girl?” You can’t answer “they identify as a boy” as no one would say that unless it’s actually meaning “they’re a girl who wants to be seen as a boy.” Which lets out that the child is actually a girl. So as a trusted adult do you say “David is a boy.” which isn’t true. It’s not like a personal question that can be deflected with “I don’t think that’s something you need to know.” which is the polite way of saying “not your business.”
How does this fit with working with SEN children who are upset by obvious contradictions. How do you tell a kid with ASD “I know you think David is a girl, but he’s not” even if David stops passing.
How do we have true acceptance of trans kids if we can’t say “this is a child who identifies as the opposite sex, treat them with respect and kindness as you would anyone else” and make sure any bullying issues (if there are any) are dealt with firmly. Do work on accepting people who are different from you. (This will already be going on, hopefully.) Treat the kid like the others but remember there are times their biological sex is important.
That way, when David needs to get changed with the girls everyone understands, when David needs to share a room with girls on residentials it’s fine. Then David can be themselves without stressing they will be found out, sibling won’t be stressing they’re found out and hopefully David gets to have a happy school experience.
David could be menstruating by y5- how do you explain a sanitary bin in the boys when no girls seem to use it? Or will David be expected to manage periods without the facilities bother girls have?

See, just saying oh tell the kids David is a boy it’ll all work out for the best is not going to happen.

Other girls- girls aren’t a bother.

@TreeWithOil the child has only been here a very short amount of time. I haven't had chance to speak to 'Davids' teacher to know how they have handled it.

I know many support staff have gone along with what they have been told to do by their headteacher. we are due to lose staff so no-one wants to be seen to cause a problem, even if they don't agree with what's happening.

I'm sure you know that schools are on their knees trying to manage the ever increasing amount of safeguarding/pastoral work so it isn't that this isn't important, more that we haven't had a second to look at the situation and ask questions.

Perhaps. But they will all know within days , because kids aren't stupid, and they will and talk and gossip.

It's utter craziness, because it doesn't give a that wee 8 year old girl a chance to speak oy and change their mind if everyone is bending over backwards to the point of directly lying to pupils and changing entire school routines/rules to enable this absolute fucking nonsense.

Fine ,if she wants to be called David and be with the boys, go for it, noone really cares, the kids certainly wouldn't. But to fucking like about it all is insane.

The kids will be sitting there going"we know David's a girl but we all just say she's a biy because the teachers say that's what we have to say "

This girl is probably already in prepuberty, and will start developing. How the fuck are they going to hide this??

No doubt the fucking parents will medicate her to delay puberty 😫

Oh yes, absolutely, I think it’s terrible that it’s all got to be a great big secret, when I thought kids today are taught that secrets aren’t good. @00100001

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1680853379570978818.html

This thread is an interesting read on the insidious nature of being Stonewalled.

I would never have allowed my children to be in a school which is complicit in this diabolical support of child abuse.

I don't get this though
Schools are generally quite scared of parents and go along with all sorts to keep them happy, maybe different if you are lower sec and this parent was autistic but to push transition on kids is way way off.

But how would you know one way or the other? Teachers used to be regarded as being 'in loco parentis' and for me this meant I could expect them to be reasonable and have some degree of care for the child's welfare.
I would be loathe to place that same amount of trust in the teaching profession right now. Thank goodness mine are older.

Just read Redtoothbrush's link. That is outrageous. She used the word 'jotter' so probably Scotland. Quelle surprise.
Yes I would home school before allowing that kind of nonsense to continue but not everyone would have that option. Our taxes are paying for all this nonsense and 'child abuse'; and years down the line when all the legal cases come home to roost, our taxes will be funding the compensation.
The whole UK political class should hang its heads in shame especially the ones who have children and really should know better.

Appalling. It's not just one small part of the school timetable, is it? It seeps into bloody everything.

Twitter poster said she was in North Lanarkshire in replies to her thread. So yes, Scotland.

I’ve read this whole thread and feel heartbroken for David and the sister. Social transitioning an 8 year old at school is very dangerous for them both. Being gender non conforming at any age is fine just wear what you want and change your name within the family if you must as a kid. Ask you friends in the playground to call you that name too if you want- but if they don’t want to go with the new name that’s fair enough.

But families mustn’t require professionals to lie. And good parents don’t require their kids to keep secrets. For both siblings too!. Imagine how marked out those two kids must feel among their peers. The burden of that. The other kids being painted as villains. The utter fear of being found out. The longer they try to keep it up the worse it will all get.

The other kids absolutely aren’t ever going to accept this girl once told she’s a boy and then revealed a girl. They’ll feel betrayed and wonder why they weee excluded from a big important secret about her. And why they were cast as the villains or as threats to her when they had done nothing wrong. Normally kids who exclude other kids like that are punished for being mean and leaving them out.

Of course the other kids won’t care much that a girl has a short haircut or calls herself by a home nickname. They’ll be interested in that for a very short time. But the other kids and all their parents will really care when actively lied to by the school. Quite reasonably. They’re being asked to play with someone at an age where naturally the importance of who is a girl and who a boy is becoming more important to kids. That’s standard child development. The school doing this could force the family to change schools again because they will be so talked about and probably isolated when the truth emerges.

This is clear child abuse by the parents which should be reported to social services (denying a young child who doesn’t understand the issues, the right to their own life story, gaslighting both the siblings, forcing them both to tell lies to adults, poisoning both of their understanding of what is safe in the outside world). What a twisted and horrible view they must be painting of all other children and adults. What overstatement of the power teachers have.

Huge failure of safeguarding by the parents and the school if they follow this. What a dreadful parental and professional failure if two children are made so very psychologically vulnerable completely unnecessarily and deliberately.

Not RTFT.

I would say that you have safeguarding concerns and that this is outside of the school’s expertise.

Ask for a meeting with the child’s parents and the child’s multidisciplinary team, including the gender specialist who ‘prescribed’ a ‘stealth’ (ie secret) social transition.
Say you can’t adequately risk assess the situation for either the child, their sibling or their classmates without that expert involvement.

Absolutely no one sane nor medically qualified to work with children is going to seriously suggest secret social transition for 8 year olds in the U.K. in 2023, so I would doubt the parents are able to rustle up the MDT supervision that Cass recommend.

Best they will be able to come up with is Susie Green and a letter from an unnamed euro dermatologist working in Webberly’s outfit, which is obvs going to be very easy to discredit.

The school are potentially making themselves legally liable for carrying out a powerful psychosocial intervention without proper medical or psychological input.

This kid could’ve just had short hair, trousers and a boy’s nickname and the class could’ve been told that the new classmate is a girl who likes boy things and still had all of the protections of being supported by staff to be a GNC child without any of the secrets and safeguarding risk.

if said child went on to transition as an adult everyone from childhood a) all their old school photos would still show them ‘looking like a boy’ and the world around them would likely find news of the transition unremarkable.

I knew an extremely GNC female child in the early 80s who was an early FtM transitioner (Buck Angel’s era) and when our village grapevine heard the gossip that little Alison had grown up to be ‘Al’ everyone just shrugged and said ‘Makes sense, I suppose!’

(although looking back I wish there was more acceptance for naturally butch women and worry about the long term medical burden of transition)