Concerned teacher - 8yo 'trans' child

[EtherealAurora]

NC for this.

A family recently moved to my school. There is a 9yo girl and her 'brother', an 8yo 'boy' who is actually a girl. Staff are to call the 'boy' David (obvs not real name) and use pronouns he/him etc. Children in the class are NOT to be told this is a girl.

Currently, children use mixed sex toilets. However, from September, the class will be split to change for PE into girls and boys.

I am not comfortable with a girl changing in a room full of boys. I think if I suggest they change in another space (eg toilets) this would cause questions to be asked by other children in the class, potentially 'outing' the child. What would be a sensible suggestion for me to make to SLT in this instance?

Schools (and parents) are building up a whole world of trouble with this approach. It sets up an expectation of access to opposite sex facilities and sports which is wrong to start with, because it rides rough shod over the rights of others. But it also isn't sustainable and is anything but kind. David may pass now, but what about at 13 or 15? How stressful will it be to try and maintain the lie? How safe will this child be in a rugby PE lesson? Or in the boys dormitory on a school trip? How will other parents and children feel about having been lied to for years?

I take it nobody here has met a young (prepubescent) child with gender dysphoria?

Can i tell you it does exist, it certainly isn't the parents fault or encouraging it in the case I know (in fact the dad wouldn't acknowledge the child at all) it's really tough on the family in fact. It's very rare I believe but it can be very strong as young as 3 or 4. It's f to m in this case and as young as 4 refused to acknowledge birth name, cut hair with kitchen scissors etc. Happy 26 year old now, fully transitioned and no one would guess.

All I'm saying is that the concerns the teacher has raised are real but the assertions that the parents are encouraging, causing or want this may be wide of the mark, unless you know them how would you know! I was skeptical until I knew this person. I still believe that sex matters by the way but there is a small group that need sympathy not scorn

@ApocalipstickNow it won't necessarily be male teachers supervising changing. Where possible it will be but many primary schools don't have enough male teachers to go around.

I don't think there is a plan yet for swimming/residentials - both will happen this academic year for this child.

It's a local authority state school.

I have so many questions to ask.

Some children feel real discomfort about their sexed body. The evidence we have is that the vast majority grow up to be reconciled to the reality of their sex. The clinicians at the Tavistock admitted that they had not been able to identify any criteria that allowed them to identify who would persist and who would not. - not age of onset, not level of distress, not level of expressed certainty...

Pretending to a child that they really can become the opposite sex is anything but kind. It will make it much harder to accept their body for those who would have done so, and for those who would persist, it's setting unrealistic expectations. I think Helen Joyce puts it very well, I can't remember which interview. Those parents are writing cheques that they're expecting everyone else to cash for the rest of that child's life.

Noting your response that it’s a LA school OP I’d go straight to the governing body.

There are lots of areas that I’d question if the school are covering up a child’s sex including:
Sex based facilities (toilets, changing)
Residential and school trip safeguarding
Equal treatment, honesty and respect for all the children in school (especially when the child’s actual biology becomes apparent)
Managing the expectations of all parents
Sex and reproduction lessons
Record keeping and legal compliance

And lastly who is liable if something goes wrong. Because it should be the governors. So if it’s on the table in front of them they can’t avoid making a proper plan.

And what will David be wearing for swimming? Ok David is prepubescent, but culturally in the UK 8 year old girls wear a swim suit which covers the chest. I’d Davids sex is known before swimming lessons start there may be awkward questions.

If David’s sex is known

The school cannot let this girl change with the boys unless all the other parents are told and agree. Once the head realises this she'll probably back down and it will all come out.
As a pp points out these new guidelines will only help gc parent's. Anyone who has swallowed the suicide line will pressure the school to socially transition and Keegans current line is that's ok. I find her very twaw and not gc at all so far tbh.

What about asking the lado / other la staff about appropriateness given changing toilets etc? And the dfe.

Excellent and relevant article, thank you! So calm and practical. “Social transition is not a neutral action”, as someone else said recently.

It's going to be a challenge hiding the lack of a bulge (even a nine year old has more than nothing) in a pair of swimmers.

Great post. And also, in light of liability if something goes wrong, what the school's insurers think about their policy of deliberately lying to parents and whether it would invalidate insurance

Isn't it good Mavis? They also wrote a piece about teenagers and social transitioning - equally worrying about the psychological impact:

https://www.transgendertrend.com/teenager-says-theyre-transgender/

You people are actually sick in the head.

You seem to have misunderstood what this thread is about. This child may have a clinical diagnosis of gender dysphoria, or she may not. There's no reason why all the teachers and pupils in a school should know about all the children's medical diagnoses. But that's not the point. The child is a girl and the headteacher shouldn't have told the teachers that her sex should be kept a secret from the other children or their parents.

'David' could have been introduced to the other children as a girl who likes to use a boy's name. They should never have been told that she's a boy. Teachers lying to children like this does an enormous amount of harm.

In children, gender dysphoria is all about stereotypes. No child should be thinking that they should be the opposite sex because of stereotypes.

there is a small group that need sympathy not scorn

Scorn? Where do you see scorn? There is nothing but sympathy on this thread for this poor child who seems to have been told that she can change sex.

Dear god.
Recognising the biological difference between males and females does not make someone sick in the head. Lieing to child whist entrenching gender stereotypes, however, does.

That is from the Cass Report.

Which OP could quote.

https://cass.independent-review.uk/publications/interim-report/

Also there's this:

https://sex-matters.org/posts/schools-and-safeguarding/what-hilary-cass-needs-to-tell-schools/

The people who are sick in the head are the people who make 'packers' for children.

Social transition is not a neutral act

“Social transition – this may not be thought of as an intervention or treatment, because it is not something that happens within health services. However, it is important to view it as an active intervention because it may have significant effects on the child or young person in terms of their psychological functioning. There are different views on the benefits versus the harms of early social transition. Whatever position one takes, it is important to acknowledge that it is not a neutral act, and better information is needed about outcomes.” (p62)

I suspect if something bad happened in mixed sex toilets when the law is that schools provide single sex over 8, insurance would be unlikely to pay out (because the school broke the law). This could bankrupt a school - finances are incredibly tight with very little wriggle room as it is for schools, especially those not in MATs.

Like these girls sexually assaulted in mixed sex toilets?:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4837730-girls-assaulted-by-teenage-boy-in-mixed-sex-school-toilet-in-essex-school

The PHSE lessons should be interesting:

What on earth is David going to think when puberty and human reproduction are discussed? Am I right in thinking these are compulsory?

Explore away. I don't want to stop her doing that but she's still a girl and it's immoral to tell her otherwise. There's only one sick person here and it's not me.