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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Nancy Kelly Quits Stonewall

314 replies

OhHolyJesus · 10/07/2023 14:34

The tweet, sharing without comment. For now at least!

https://twitter.com/nancymmk/status/1678389649515982849?s=46&t=3vhGKDq77qvuwlnTiE6jg

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
WickedSerious · 12/07/2023 17:31

TheBiologyStupid · 12/07/2023 10:19

My mum made a Guinness cake a couple of times back in the '70s...

Was it porter cake?

IwantToRetire · 14/07/2023 00:45

Thank you, Nancy Kelley!
The outgoing Stonewall CEO has helped to discredit gender ideology

As I reflect back on Nancy Kelley’s three year tenure at Stonewall, I come to appreciate that her greatest achievement has been waking up wider society to the harms of gender ideology. For that, she will always have my eternal gratitude.

https://thecritic.co.uk/thank-you-nancy-kelley/

Thank you, Nancy Kelley! | James Esses | The Critic Magazine

The outgoing Stonewall CEO has helped to discredit gender ideology…

https://thecritic.co.uk/thank-you-nancy-kelley

EmpressaurusOfCats · 14/07/2023 08:48

Maybe they should appoint Sarah Jane Baker as the new head....

WickedSerious · 14/07/2023 15:19

EmpressaurusOfCats · 14/07/2023 08:48

Maybe they should appoint Sarah Jane Baker as the new head....

I'm sure he'd bring a lot of energy to the role.

SideWonder · 14/07/2023 15:45

Well, the strategic policy docs would be very short and to the point - two words, really:

Oppress women.

Emotionalsupportviper · 14/07/2023 17:38

SideWonder · 12/07/2023 09:28

Dennis is an absolute superstar.

Yes, he is! I've had a few lovely chats via DM with him. I love his righteous rage & passion, particularly about the homophobia of gender extremist ideology. He and Clive on "The Queen's Speech" (a YouTube/podcasty thing) are also hilarious.

They certainly are!

What a lovely couple of blokes - and I've learned a lot about the law as it applies to this area as well.

Emotionalsupportviper · 14/07/2023 17:40

Chersfrozenface · 12/07/2023 10:21

I expect a recipe for Guinness chocolate cake will pop up on the Cake board - I know Nigella has one.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/food_and_recipes/4846855-cake-recipes-and-opinions?page=2&reply=127565770

Thank you - my mam used to make a Guinness cake, too, but I don't have her recipe. I doubt it was as lavish as Nigella's probably is, but I'll certainly have a look.

Clymene · 14/07/2023 19:20

Boiledbeetle · 14/07/2023 19:06

Ouch! That's very good and has a splendid in the tail

Boiledbeetle · 14/07/2023 19:25

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · posted the full Twitter text of DK s mega what if tweet on the Susie green thread and I'm shamelessly cutting and pasting it here

Thread by @Jebadoo2 on Thread Reader App – Thread Reader App

1/ I want to pay tribute tonight to Nancy Kelley, outgoing CEO of Stonewall for being our ever stalwart general fighting for the reality of sex and homosexual rights against the madness of gender. She could have given in, but she always did the difficult thing, the right thing.
2/ NK took over Stonewall at a time of flux. Gay marriage was achieved. The dreadful shadow of AIDS was now a critical condition, not a death sentence. We had service in the military, we had equal consent. The Gay rights movement faced an existential choice, and Ruth chose trans
3/ Incoming Stonewall chief NK noticed the tumult and aggravation regarding trans politics. She immediately ceased all Stonewall lobbying in this area and refocused the charity on two matters. Gay rights abroad and healing after AIDS.
4/ Under her leadership Stonewall forsake lucrative funding related to workplaces and single sex spaces and worked hard in the Middle East, Africa and further afield to secure gay rights, SW put in place successful refugee and immigration assistance and campaigned globally
5/ At home the wise CEO estimated that the domestic gay rights movement had spent so long fighting, it had little time to reconcile itself to pain & real problems. Effective campaign around chemsex, alcohol and loneliness were undertaken for gay men with difficult truths faced
6/ Stonewall finished it's work in the family courts protecting lesbians who had historically lost custody of children simply for being lesbians. Similar campaigns to those for gay men regarding such matters and family alienation were undertaken. Lesbian role models were offered
7/ And there there came gender. Stonewall's singular focus on same-sex attracted people displeased the lucrative and global push for gender to displace sex as a primary reality in legislation. Many competing charities took the shilling of international gender.
8/ A debate erupted again as to whether Stonewall should do the same and return to the Ruth Hunt Agenda. NK will be remembered for her heroism in this hour. She coined the phrase "let's debate" against gendocrats who said "no debate".
9/ NK spoke to gay rights legends Bev Jackson, Kate Harris and Simon Fanshawe for guidance. Memorably, she chaired a public meeting where internet firebrand Magdalen Berns addressed a gala Stonewall sponsored debate on whether gender ideology was homophobic.
10/ This debate established the coming horrors of gender, Berns explained what an AGP and the "cotton ceiling" was, Harris and Jackson spoke about the danger to children, Fanshawe explained how a generation of straight people were calling themselves "queer" (to gasps)
11/ Resolute in her desire to protect same-sex attracted people, NK issued a Stonewall statement the next day entitled "Without sex, there is no same sex attraction". In this reality there was no reason for JK Rowling to say such, Stonewall did it's job and defended gay people.
12/ The global tides of gender washed against the shores of TERF island nonetheless, only in this reality, TERF never took hold as a term, it couldn't, the gay rights movement were the principal opponents of the doctrine. But come it did with Forstater.
13/ In this reality things were somewhat different though. Forstater was employed by a US based organisation where gender predominated. In her hour of need it was NK, not JKR she turned to, it was Stonewall who fundraised and supported under the "no sex, no same sex" banner
14/ Forstater still lost at first instance, because the charities who did take the shilling of international gender capitalised on Stonewall focusing on global gay rights and real problems in the gay community, they still corrupted the institutions somewhat.
15/ But it was Stonewall who intervened in support, rather than in opposition to her, their firebrand legal team and the additional support of the EHRC made their win inevitable. Following the victory a Stonewall campaign purged the ETBB of genderese
16/ Away from employment, NK was made aware of dark rumours of modern gay conversion surgery spurred on by a hitherto small and inconsequential charity called Mermaids. Following disquiet she met with Dr David Bell, a governor.
17/ He explained clinicians had grave reservations about a "new form of gay conversion therapy" with reports of homophobic parents "transing the gay away".This was NK's finest hour. Occupied with global gay rights and anti chemsex campaigns she had been unware of this
18/ But when the call came to protect vulnerable gay and autistic and looked after children she and Michael Cashman called for demonstrations, mounted public campaigns and labelled the practice of gender medicine "the new gay conversion therapy"
19/ Mermaids were removed from any clinical influence within months. The case of Appleby never happened. A statutory inquiry was triggered into Mermaids and in and echo of our own timeline Stonewall went to a Tribunal to successfully remove their charity status
20/ Where Gender attacked, Stonewall defended. Kathleen Stock never left her job, a Stonewall sponsored counter protest bussed hordes of lesbians and gay men in to protect her. Allison Bailey represented Stonewall at various tribunals.
21/ The LGB Alliance never existed, it didn't have to. Sex matters the same. Helen Joyce and Maya Forstater sat on panels WITH NK to discuss protecting women against gender, not promoting it. Self-ID never gained any purchase and gender never made incursions into the UK.
22/ And that Stalwart and defiant protection of women, homosexuals and bisexuals all happened because NK and Stonewall showed leadership. They recognised the danger of gender, they saw to their community and they avoided years of misery.

And that was true leadership.

PencilsInSpace · 14/07/2023 21:35

Maya Forstater:

Nancy Kelley's exit interview with Freda & Vicky a few days before her departure announced. Freedom of information requests are "attacks" which politicise Stonewall "Iain Anderson leaves the detail to me" ... hmm maybe not!

https://twitter.com/MForstater/status/1679907815769374744

I think I can only watch this in chunks, it's making me so angry.

Slothtoes · 14/07/2023 21:41

Honestly how does anyone have the gall to lead an organisation with a genuinely proud history like Stonewall, whilst denigrating lesbians as ‘sexual racists’ for not wanting to fuck men. it’s so upsetting.

TheBiologyStupid · 14/07/2023 22:09

Well, Susie Green is available now... (Is she a double agent?!)

PencilsInSpace · 14/07/2023 22:27

At around 27 minutes:

'I have sometimes said, and it is true, for me at least, I think trans women are women. I believe trans women are women, that's my truth, that's how I feel. But I don't really care if anybody else believes that.'

I have no idea how she has the gall to say this, having called lesbians sexual racists.

Emotionalsupportviper · 15/07/2023 07:31

PencilsInSpace · 14/07/2023 22:27

At around 27 minutes:

'I have sometimes said, and it is true, for me at least, I think trans women are women. I believe trans women are women, that's my truth, that's how I feel. But I don't really care if anybody else believes that.'

I have no idea how she has the gall to say this, having called lesbians sexual racists.

I'm just sick of people claiming "MY truth" thatcher than THE truth,

Not everything is shades of grey. Emotions, perspectives on an incident - those have different shades. Science however, deals in FACTS. No matter how much you might want things to be different, they aren't and never will be - and this is demonstrable and provable.

WickedSerious · 15/07/2023 08:12

PencilsInSpace · 14/07/2023 22:27

At around 27 minutes:

'I have sometimes said, and it is true, for me at least, I think trans women are women. I believe trans women are women, that's my truth, that's how I feel. But I don't really care if anybody else believes that.'

I have no idea how she has the gall to say this, having called lesbians sexual racists.

If she 'doesn't really care' why is she so mad keen to ram it down our throats?

Tootsweets23 · 15/07/2023 08:26

Doesn't anyone know when this year's annual accounts for SW will be published? I have a strong feeling their income will have dropped like a stone...

register-of-charities.charitycommission.gov.uk/charity-search/-/charity-details/3992465/financial-history

Slothtoes · 15/07/2023 09:10

Nancy Kelley also made it sound like she thinks holding gender critical beliefs are on a par with holding antisemitic beliefs or anti-disabled people beliefs as that key Jo Bartosch article linked to above, reminded me, thank you for the link BoiledBeetle.
And Prof Alice Sullivan at UCL was spot on speaking out against Kelley’s views, also quoted in Jo Bartosch article)
So, thank you Alice Sullivan.
https://www.thejc.com/news/uk/anger-grows-over-stonewall-boss-antisemitism-comment-1.517532

As many people said when the equally destructive predecessor in Nancy Kelley’s job, Ruth Hunt, was shuffled off from being CEO of Stonewall to the House of Lords, the CEO in any charity is just the front person. It’s not like a company. The direction of the work any charity is agreed and set by its Trustees, so what the staff like the CEO then instruct the rest of the staff to do, must either come from the Trustees or is fully signed off by them. Has there been any change among the Stonewall Trustees? If not there will just be another of the same appointment.

Ruth Hunt in the Lords has her sights on changing legislation around surrogacy, removing the ‘spousal veto’ in GRA and overall on reforming gender recognition in the Lords, so still on the same tack.

I do agree with Hunt one instance which is that the GRA needs an overhaul, because it’s outdated and problematic and always has been (though I think that for completely different reasons) so I guess even a stopped clock.. https://www.politicshome.com/thehouse/article/ruth-hunt-our-legislation-on-gender-is-out-of-date-its-time-for-a-good-overhaul

Froodwithatowel · 15/07/2023 09:58

Quite. Kelley stated publicly that a homosexual female stating that she did not wish to take her pants off and provide sex to a male who declared certain inner feels was a grave fault and failing on her part.

I just still do not have enough wtfs for that. It's the age old homophobia to lesbians of: 'you just need a good seeing to' dressed up in marketing burble for this grotty decade.

Slothtoes · 15/07/2023 10:40

Yup. Men’s sexual rights to women and children including (especially?) lesbians are what’s at stake here and they’re obviously not going to be giving that fight up easily; seeing as how they’re bigger, stronger, massively entitled and as narcissistic as fuck. Hmm

Froodwithatowel · 15/07/2023 10:47

Made even grottier and uglier when it's a woman pimping out other women's rights and bodies to males.

The right of women to a sexuality of their own, one that excludes all men regardless of how they feel about it or agree, is what this wretched women and wretched organisation is trying to destroy. While dressing it up to sound like a lovely, progressive thing. I'd actually be less revolted if they were honest about it. It's like bloody Professor Umbridge. Appalling with cute kittens on it.

ResisterRex · 15/07/2023 11:10

Tootsweets23 · 15/07/2023 08:26

Doesn't anyone know when this year's annual accounts for SW will be published? I have a strong feeling their income will have dropped like a stone...

register-of-charities.charitycommission.gov.uk/charity-search/-/charity-details/3992465/financial-history

But their influence seems not to have done. Please write to your MP about this guidance, linked here as has been put online in full:

Civil Service Trans and intersex guide - write to your MP
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4849444-civil-service-trans-and-intersex-guide-write-to-your-mp

Needmoresleep · 15/07/2023 11:56

The board should be given some responsibility for this mess. They decided/agreed to add the T. They then appointed Ruth Hunt, presumably in part because she was happy to implement the policy. When that went pear shaped a convenient seat was found for her in the House of Lords (what has she done there? She does not even seem to wave the flag on LGBT+ issues.) They then spent months searching for someone with charity administration experience and, presumably, prepared to continue to implement the boards direction.

The long standing Chair was replaced a year or so ago. If the current Chair is not interested in changing direction, and given his switch from Tory to Labour there is no sign he is, they will probably be looking for another mug who is prepared to both take on this poison chalice and be publicly blamed for the shit show.

Note, Chairs are men with successful careers. CEs are sensible looking middle aged women. Why are some held to account, not others. (Which does not mean that Ruth and Nancy should not be held accountable for their opportunism/naivety but those that set the polict should not be allow to hide in the shadows.)

AutumnCrow · 15/07/2023 12:29

Froodwithatowel · 15/07/2023 10:47

Made even grottier and uglier when it's a woman pimping out other women's rights and bodies to males.

The right of women to a sexuality of their own, one that excludes all men regardless of how they feel about it or agree, is what this wretched women and wretched organisation is trying to destroy. While dressing it up to sound like a lovely, progressive thing. I'd actually be less revolted if they were honest about it. It's like bloody Professor Umbridge. Appalling with cute kittens on it.

God you're so right. They're pimps. Sex traffickers of women's and children's rights.

AutumnCrow · 15/07/2023 12:33

@Needmoresleep agreed - the Board needs to be accountable, as all Boards do. God knows I've sat on a few. Normally the CEO hides behind the Chair and senior Board members, not the other way round.

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