Miss Netherlands 2023:

[mrshoho]

Slow hand clap for the male winner of Miss Universe Netherlands 2023. Don't know why women would enter these things anyway but more so than ever a reason to just hand the whole thing to the men from now on.

Are the Dutch complaining?

they might when all the people billed as beeyuoutiful ladies in the Netherlands look like Brian

How, er..., stereotypically regressive progressive

This is one heavily airbrushed photo of him. I saw a "real" picture of him on twitter. He doesn't look like that!

What a surprise!

I'll see if I can find it.

I saw that picture on Twitter this morning too, he’s an unattractive man in need of braces, who won purely because he has a dick.

Interesting that the top search suggestion on Google just now when I inputted Netherlands Miss Universe is "Netherlands Miss Universe runner up".

Some of the Lady Boys in Asia are very attractive and can superficially pass as looking like women.

This geezer from the Netherlands is unattractive and looks exactly like what he is - a bloke in a dress.

Eww!! I saw the close up too. That man does not confirm to any societal beauty standards. An ugly male winning a female beauty competition. The world really has gone mad!

Oh yes. Twitter was a delight to read. Sadly most people (men) were complaining about how he is not really that attractive, most women were gushing how wonderful he was and not many people saying that the pushing women out of womens opportunities was really getting grating.

The competition is owned by a transwoman and the rules openly state transwomen are eligible to compete.

As a competition of Performative Femininity, I don’t think it much matters whether males take part.

As gender critical people, aren’t we wanting to dismantle bullshit like femininity competitions rather than trying to keep them single sex?

Beauty pageants are the epitome of endorsement for gender stereotypes. And those stereotypes are harmful to women and girls.

India and Venezuela are the leading countries with the most winners. For women this can lead to a vast improvement of their lives, often from poor backgrounds. Giving male people these opportunities takes away from these women.

I think beauty pageant are sexist stupid competitions but I also see that I come from a western priviliged viewpoint and for women in developing, extremely sexist, countries this can make a world of difference.

I knew a girl from a "developing" country who won her nation's equivalent pageant. She got SO many opportunities based on taking part in it, ones that wouldn't otherwise have come her way. She was from a lower middle class background and stunningly beautiful. In her culture, women in general weren't given that many opportunities. She worked very hard for it, as did the other young women, and while it's not something I have any interest in, it did offer her a better life. I've NO doubt it also brought her a lot of male attention, at least some of which she was unable to refuse if she wanted to carry on. So I know it can be beneficial, but I'm not a fan.

I do think, however, there should be a no plastic surgery rule though as posted upthread, and a no makeup contest in place of a swimsuit round. That's if they're too afraid/have no desire to make it women only.

I bet the Dutch winner is messing with the heads of a lot of men today! 😂

also, what does it say when the most feminine woman of The Netherlands/The world is actually male? It kind of proves that this sort of femininity has nothing to do with being female, because if it did, no man could win it.

You could defend Page 3 with many of the arguments being used here.

I bet the Dutch winner is messing with the heads of a lot of men today!

have you seen more candid, less posed pictures of him? unlikely to be turning any straight men I think

I am a bit torn, because I get that these competitions do bring opportunities for the winners. I'm wondering if it's like sport.

but there's no 'how pretty and agreeable are you?' competitions for men. so if men want to play that game they have to enter the competitions that have previously just been for women. I don't think this is like sport. It's more like an equal opportunities race to the bottom. Men want the opportunity to be judged solely on their looks and how 'nice' they can pretend to be. fair enough

I'm not sure how much of a market there is out there but I would strongly advise MN'ers to bet as much as they can afford to lose on Ms Kolle to win the global version, assuming that this was a qualifier of sorts.

There are male beauty pageants, including a Mister World.

Mr Universe is different, being a competition for body builders; the female equivalent is Miss Olympia, I believe.

Just going to see whether William Hill do online betting on beauty pageants. Seeing as something's gone awry with my Lottery win.

I am really not comfortable with the idea that women entering a beauty contest in good faith are less deserving of support than women entering, let's say a female sporting competition.

If the organisers want to make the event mixed sex then they need to say so.

Bring back the bikini stage. Let's see what they are really made of! 😂

Mister World

well, you learn something new everyday

I do get that if these competitions are mixed sex the organisers should say so. And that women will have lots of reasons for entering them

but I also think that if I am saying gender stereotypes don’t matter, then the corollary of that is being ok with men entering a ‘how good are you at being feminine’ competition

dunno. It’s not something I’d do any activism for either way because I’m not sure what the right answer is

So we'll only support women if they enter women's events that we personally approve of?

Or women’s events that don’t actively harm other women

I think I would argue that we’re all finished by the stereotypes perpetrated by beauty pageants, particularly if you subscribe to the idea that they’re only applicable to women

Argh

finished = diminished

fuck you autocorrect

And perpetrated = perpetuated

jesus

Thanks JulieHoney. Performative Femininity is such a good description: see also Love Island, Drag Race and every other reality TV show featuring people in swimwear & heels, full make up & swishy hair 😀

I disagree strongly.

I think that if women enter a contest believing they're competing with other women on a level playing field, and if their good faith turns out to have been misplaced, then I'm going support them. It's not the competition, it's the gaslighting of the women involved, so my personal approval is neither here nor there.

It would be different if it were openly mixed sex.