Ginny - an update

[idontknowwhattosay23]

Massive apologies for the delay in an update. It's been tricky to know how to word it so that I don't get into trouble or have to ask for it to be taken down again. Plus I've been so depressed with the situation I haven't really known what to say.

I won't be able to post the full story as before so really this is only for the benefit of those that read the last (now deleted) thread and wondered what happened / can remember the details.

The meeting went ahead as planned, although with the massive twist that it wasn't actually just myself and "Ginny" but was turned into a whole office meeting, which turned into just giving Ginny a platform to talk about her life as a trans woman (all 6 months of it) and how she is constantly objectified by men, sexually harassed and cat called and suffers far more than any cis woman and as such, deserves (and needs so she doesn't harm herself) the support and cooperation of everyone in the office, especially other women. No, I'm not joking.

The tampon / being in the women's toilet issue was brushed under the carpet as quickly as possible and explained to us as a complex matter of dysphoria that we couldn't possibly grasp and was not to be spoken about again. We were then informed that female sanitary products would be provided by management in ALL toilets, men's women's and the disabled toilets to avoid any future "misunderstanding". I was asked if I wanted to apologise for my outburst and make a fresh start with Ginny, I did so because as I said in the last thread, I really need this job at the moment. I'm so disappointed in myself for doing so and feel gross. But I couldn't do anything else. I want to thank all those that said to just suck it up and apologise, it saved me my job 100% no question about it.

Overall it was bordering humiliating for all involved, we were spoken to like children and patronised beyond belief. Ginny has been given a new desk set up right by the bosses office, best view, newest computer and a client list that even people who have been there 10+ years wouldn't usually get a look in on and have been working hard to secure for a long time... myself and two other women have been relocated to the back office. Apparently absolutely unrelated incidents, based on "the continuing restructure of company operations to maximise productivity and output". Two men have handed in their notice, again entirely unrelated.... (I can't say much, please put the pieces together yourselves ❤️)

I'm speaking now because frankly I'm dreading Monday, as in physically feel crap and absolutely can't face going in, but for now I have to. I'm actively looking for another job and have had my 3 weeks holiday approved from mid-July so I just need to get through a week and a half and I'm free of the nonsense for a bit to regroup and figure out what I do next.

It's no understatement to say I am utterly baffled as to why there is such massive special treatment for Ginny, considering the huge mistakes they have made since starting and the constant drama. Current theories floated by colleagues suggest either the boss believes that this is legally how trans people need to be treated in the workplace and is entirely uneducated in it, thus airing massively on the side of caution and has pushed inclusivity so far he's excluded everyone else. And another theory to do with crushes that I couldn't possibly repeat.

So there we have it. I'm sorry it took a while to update, there is plenty more happening that I just can't really share at the moment. But when I can I will.

Very good advice from @CatChant

The only thing I would add is that if you find yourself in a situation again like the one this morning, then contemporaneous records are very valuable. I think a PP might have suggested this already - pinging a quick text or email to the boss. Something appears to be wrong with Ginny and we have all been locked out of the office. We can't get back in, can you let us know what you want us to do. It gets the facts on record at an early stage.

I think they are in it for a payout … not your problem, but you are being bullied and silenced. Hope all the advice above is helpful, but remember until it gets sorted you will need your wages, and a reference…

Except this is not a right old laugh, is it? It's someone's livelihood and mental health on the line

Agree with CatChant and Silvered.

Only thing to add is remember you'll probably need a reference so it's worth balancing standing up for yourself with making it easy enough for the boss to give you a functional reference (i.e. so he doesn't try to get awkward with the reference, as you already know how inappropriate and controlling he can be) so you can get out of there ASAP.

And while it was very brave of you to say something when no-one else had the guts, I would be very careful not to say "sorry" next time, because even though your colleagues and Ginny could read between the lines and would pick up on the sarcasm as they knew the situation, the boss had only heard Ginny's explanation and is hugely biased against you already, and so may well interpret your piping up as being some sort of "ring-leader" that might accord with Ginny's interpretation. Plus, you speaking up when no-one else does gives Ginny ammunition to continue to paint you as the transphobic ring-leader.

I definitely agree that the boss needs to be told the truth about what actually happened by the end of today. Ideally it will be a group thing or from someone else so you're not front and centre of this, but if it doesn't, I would still tell him by the end of the day yourself, as it's better coming from you than letting Ginny control the narrative of what happened.

It's also worth remembering that when under pressure, people are essentially selfish. And, as nice as the rest of your colleagues may be, they also know that the person who stands to lose the most by the boss not knowing what really happened is you.

So everyone else has a vested interest in keeping quiet so as not to be put in the position you were at the last staff meeting, and they also know that you're the one who's going to end up taking the fall for this if they stay quiet, as their silence makes it look like it's an ongoing dispute between Ginny and you which no-one else is admitting to being involved in.

Just be careful, and keep in mind that your colleagues are only going to support you in this to the extent that their interests are aligned with yours.

I have done nothing today which I should have, but read this second posting by OP
If I had watched this as a soap opera i would not have got to the end, it's all so totally mad,
I'm so very sorry you are going through this. but want to read the rest and know that you get a new job BACK IN THE SANE WORLD
xx and flowers

Yy re the contemporary records.

Even if there is no email sent to the boss describing this morning's events (ideally by someone else, as PP have said), then OP needs to lay them out clearly and unemotionally in an email and send it to herself, from and to a personal device and email account to which work has no access.

She can then file this date-stamped email away in case it is ever needed. OP is clearly working with someone manipulative and unscrupulous, and a bit of groundwork like this may be protective.

Oh my goodness OP - what a complete shit show.

I am so sorry this is happening to you.

I think you should do what feels best.

ie if you get through lunch and the rest of the day go home, relax, prepare for your interview (I am sure you will do great). Are you taking the day off work for this. I do hope so.

then over the weekend have a long hard think, in terms of how the interview went, using up savings (brilliant that your parents are supporting you).

And if you still aren't sure take the week off work and then go on holiday.

But one thing I think you should do is let the people you have worked with at the office for a while that you are at breaking point.

Make them understand how wrong and humiliating it was to have to apologise, and that none of them spoke up then or after today's shit show.

And if you end up in tears because it is so awful, they need to understand what has been done to you but because of your responsibilities, children, picking up the pieces after their father walked out, you feel like you are being pushed out of work.

Not to guilt trip them, but you shouldn't have to feel so isolated in the office.

Hoping so very much you are okay.

Good luck for tomorrow.

A very good point.

OP I know you must be feeling exhausted by all this crap. But I hope you and colleagues can press this point, that you have all been wrongly recorded as having made the mistake that was, in reality, made by only one person.

I also wanted to say I think you and your colleagues are being sexually harassed.
I have never randomly dropped into a lunch break conversation with colleagues how my knickers are riding up, or giggling as I recount a supposed incident involving a man pushing his groin against me and telling me I'm the most beautiful woman he's ever seen... ginny on the other hand, shares these daily.

That sort of talk to a captive audience of women is sexual harassment, whatever the speaker is wearing or calling himself!

(Might it even be legally classified as sexual harassment if a woman did it to other women? I don’t know, but a self-declared transwomen who isn’t even seeking surgery is definitely not a woman anyway.)

Please don’t let these things pass, OP, understandable though that would be in these horrible circumstances. Keep detailed dated records of everything, and don’t let yourself be officially recorded as having made any mistakes you didn’t make.

Excellent advice. Really excellent. Try to hang in there.

I'm hesitant making employment law statements because I'm in Ireland and I know things in the UK may be different, but afaik your boss cannot legally give you a bad reference (or, possibly, a good one) - a statement of 'OP worked here as a [job doer] from [date] to [date]' is pretty standard.

Mind you, I'm pretty sure he also couldn't legally do quite a lot of things he's done in the last fortnight.

Look after you, don't worry about him.

I do not agree that going off sick while searching for other employment is the best plan.

If you have the funds and the family support, I personally try to get some time off for personal reasons. Keep it unrelated to what's happening in the office. That keeps your reference intact and gives you some breathing space.

Yes, that's the problem - there is a way he is supposed to behave as an employer, and then there's what he's actually been doing.

He's been so unprofessional, erratic and overbearing and has left himself vulnerable to all sorts of different legal issues throughout this whole debacle.

He appears completely oblivious as to many aspects of employment law, so I doubt he would bother to check his legal position when it comes to references, as that would be completely out of character for him.

So yes, while OP could seek legal recourse if he did do something controlling or vindictive (like trying to withhold a reference or saying something he shouldn't), it could still jeopardise OP's relationship with a new employer or her ability to start a new job as planned.

And it could mean that OP has to explain the insane situation to the new employer, meaning that Ginny's drama actually follows her to her new workplace too.

Obviously speak to ACAS if any of the reference stuff does become an issue, OP, but that's obviously an issue for another day.

On the referencing front, an employer can give a negative reference as long as it is factual. So if he wanted to put 'OP was a shit employee who had her hand in the till at every opportunity' he had better have the cctv and a documentary record of the disciplinary, reports to the police for theft etc. to back that shit up.

Likewise if he wanted to record in a reference 'OP was dismissed due to bullying of a colleague' he needs to show that he followed the dismissal process and documented it correctly, if the reference is ever legally challenged.

If he doesn't have documentary evidence, he would be well advised not to mention it in a reference, and a reference stating 'worked here from x to y' would be reasonable.

If the op left of her own accord, and remained professional throughout, then there would be very little negative information he could put in a reference, without being subject to legal challenge over it, if the OP was inclined to take action.

I definitely think it's best to try to stick it out in the job until you have another one to go to, especially since IIRC you're in a relatively limited geographical area so the job market will be competitive and you'll be going up against people still in employment.

Obviously your mental health should come first so do visit your GP if it gets to the point where this is unbearable, as this kind of thing does eat away at a person, especially with all the collective gaslighting and sly duplicitous comments.

I would definitely speak to an employment lawyer before handing in your notice without another job to go to - take your notes with a one-page summary of the situation so you can spend the lawyer's time focussed on your legal options rather than having to explain the batshit situation to a stranger from scratch!

What hell Op. so sorry you're going through this. I'd either go off sick or take annual leave just to get some headspace.

Good luck for the interview tomorrow!

I remember your first thread OP and have read this, wide eyed with incredulity. Bullying at work happens but this is a truly bizarre version.

Sounds like your boss has managed by being a good guy for decades, with little to no HR knowledge. He is in way over his head and needs to get professional advice. From my reading, the boss is bricking it.

That's not your problem though. Good luck with the new job. Don't let yourself get out of pocket. Maybe sick leave from now until your holiday, but you don't want to end up with a big sickie record. Are there any decent unions who would defend you in this position? Or a letter from employment lawyer costs a few hundred but can be effective.

My friend worked with a cross dresser a few years ago and was all #bekind. He groomed her until he thought she was ready for a sex attack at work. Misjudged that one! Your story sounds like a similar dynamic. Your boss will be in a mess if something like that blows up in his company when Ginny has him by the whatnots.

I have changed my mind. I think that @CCatChant has hit the nail on the head here about what you should do, Op.

I hope you're managing to have relaxed evening and able to prepare well for your interview OP. We are all with you.

I know this isn't directed at any one post, but as I have suggested going off sick, I want to point out I have said do so because from what the OP has posted it really sounds like her mental health is suffering, and recognise it as something like that happened to me, I felt like I had to struggle on, but once I reached the point when I was bursting into tears in private and felt I could not go into work, I contacted my GP for advice and thought I would get maybe a 2week sick note, but was signed off for 6weeks as my distress was obvious, as I think the OPs will be. So I want to encourage the OP to get that support too

This is an important point. The vast majority of constructive dismissal cases fail. And if you've got another job your case would be certain to fail, because you haven't suffered a loss that you need to be compensated for.

I really hope the lunch went without any drama but I expect Ginny somehow managed to spoil it.
Interview tomorrow though op , keeping my fingers crossed for you.

Don't spend your savings.

Good luck for your interview tomorrow.

I agree with @CatChant too - head down and grey rock until your holiday and even better, until you get a new job.

Wishing you well in the interview tomorrow.