“If you see a TERF, punch them in the fucking face!” Speech at Trans Pride London 8 July 2023

[IwantToRetire]

Sarah Jane Baker, on the Trans Pride stage, saying

“If you see a TERF, punch them in the fucking face!”

to a cheering crowd :)

https://twitter.com/unpopulargenz/status/1677790606561628160

NB to MNHQ the video shows this being said. It is not just an allegation being shared.

If it was one bad apple agree why the cheers and even worse Labour MP doing the both sides are violent

Yeh we’re not.

We just say no to males in our single sex spaces. That’s it!

ffs

The political spin on it is the worst part and it makes me think we’re screwed

Although I get the op about this peaking people

bernard and frood you are both spot on.

Hey wims!! This is a male individual we are supposed to be happy to have in the next cubicle and to wash our hands besides. Imagine if you did a double take at the sinks and looked twice, do those saying ‘no harm comes from having these people considered women’ think this person would not react in a way that was at least to make a woman uncomfortable? For a woman double checking who was washing their hands beside them?

It does eventually dawn on people that the whole 'I am what I say I am and its your job to reframe me entirely in your mind and create that illusion for me' links up with 'that didn't happen' (despite the video evidence) and 'that isn't what it looks like' (while standing right next to it and having said that is exactly what it was two minutes ago) and 'that wasn't me' (despite everyone looking at the pictures and footage).....

are not two different things.

This movement is the epitomy of the kid eating a biscuit, crumbs everywhere, looking you right in the eye and saying 'It wasn't me that took the biscuit'. In most people this isn't regarded as a good or a healthy sign.

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Reaction11:30Calls for violence in the trans debate only come from one sideAn activist advocated punching feminists at a rally this weekendBY JOAN SMITH
Sarah Jane Baker addresses a protest outside Downing Street in January. Credit: Getty

On Saturday, a convicted criminal got up in front of a cheering crowd in central London and publicly incited violence against women. “If you see a terf, punch them in the fucking face,” he declared to whoops of approval from his audience at Hyde Park Corner. (Terf is a slurused against feminists who support women’s rights.)
The trans activist, who now call himself Sarah Jane Baker, served thirty years in prison for a series of violent offences including kidnapping, torture and attempted murder. Since he was released in 2019, he has been a regular attendee of trans events, including a demonstration outside Parliament in January when the UK Government blocked the SNP’s gender reform bill. On that occasion, he was photographed with three Labour MPs who later claimed not to know who he was. Like what you’re reading?Get the free UnHerd daily emailSign up, for freeAlready registered? Sign in
After Baker called for assaults on women at Saturday’s London Trans Pride event, the organisers defended him. They insisted they did not condone violence, but added that “Sarah and many others in our community hold a lot of rage and anger and they have the right to express that anger through their words.”

From the Unherd article.
Particularly the last bit. Will just post it once more:
After Baker called for assaults on women at Saturday’s London Trans Pride event, the organisers defended him. They insisted they did not condone violence, but added that “Sarah and many others in our community hold a lot of rage and anger and they have the right to express that anger through their words.”

A lot of rage and anger. Which they must express, otherwise they might implode.

Hmmm. I Wonder what Merlin thinks?

Oh. Formatting fail.

Yeh - the both sides whine from mr Thatchell will not go down well.

Two wrongs don’t make a right my arse.

(1) they let them on the stage with an antifa flag, which is known to be associated with left-wing violent extremism.

(2) cheers from the crowd.

(3) they reportedly put the video up on their Instagram.

(4) the organisers although saying that they didn't condone violence, then went on to defend the speaker and act as apologists for violent rhetoric.

This isn't merely that antifa happen to agree with the messages of trans activism. This isn't merely that antifa turned up at one of their events.

This is: some of the trans activist movement has taken over, and become inspired by, the violent ideology of antifa.

But we have regular MN posters representing TQ+ activism who regularly post on the threads to explain that:

a female stating reality is a justification for violence from a MRA as she is being provocative (recent thread)

a female stating reality is absolutely as bad as, for example an MRA punching a female so hard he fractures her skull

really this is a belief system that follows the ancient tradition that sometimes a woman just needs a good slap.

These posters tend to be as baffled by objections to this as they are to the resistance towards their theory that what a lesbian really needs in their life is cock and they'll reframe their sexuality once they've had some, and that women can be fully and properly defined by men who understand life and the contents of the woman's head much better than any woman, and women should gratefully receive these definitions and labels instead of, for example, saying 'do not call me cis'. It is the exact same paternalism of the 'nice' old school TS MNetters who came here years ago to say gently and firmly, "I've listened to all your reasons why you want single sex spaces, and my managerial decision is that they are not important (to me) and the greater good is served by me doing what I want regardless'.

This view of women is not a bug, it is a feature. It has always been a feature. You cannot take the misogyny and violence out of this movement, or pretend it's something other, or a capture by extremists, all you can do is work out for yourself at what shade you become uncomfortable enough with it to say 'no' to a male.

Yes an ideology that was built around lies. Anyone who questioned those lies was fair game to be threatened. In many countries now these lies are enshrined in law and woe behold anyone who doesn't go along with the mantras even though the evidence to the contrary is staring them in the face. Thank goodness we didn't let it get that far (yet).

More pictures of attendees here.

https://www.dazeddigital.com/life-culture/gallery/32399/8/trans-pride-in-london-2023

What strikes me most are:

1. The relentless obsession with bodies in general and breasts in particular (which seem always to be called 'tits' or 'titties'). Breasts are on display, or crossed out with tape, or bondage ropes or leather straps, or removed, scarred, or 'pending' according to one sign.
2. The violence of the language. 'fuck the cis-tem', 'fuck t*rfs', 'trans drag queens against brainless twats', 'trans is cunt', 'be trans do crime', etc.

I can see it happening. I thought we could escape the same but I don’t think so

I knew we’d cop it ages ago, but hoped it wouldn’t be the case

a female stating reality is a justification for violence from a MRA as she is being provocative (recent thread)

a female stating reality is absolutely as bad as, for example an MRA punching a female so hard he fractures her skull

The AIBU / site stuff thread running atm shows exactly this

The organisers respond to media coverage here.

Instructive how so many of the comments are supportive of violence and justify the threats of violence:

'Sarah has every right to be angry, we ALL do.'

'I really encourage people to read her interview and think about why she would feel so much anger toward TERFs,'

'a punch in the face honestly seems a little tame'

'Keep fighting'

'If only our loved trans community wanted to “punch tories in the face”'

'you can’t ask fascists nicely not to kill you and your community. BASH THE FASH'

'I'll be damned before I feel guilty for pushing a fascist in the face.'

'Why should we put up with violence when terfs feel privileged enough to demand not to'

'why is it okay for terfs to advocate and scream everyday for the extermination of trans people, but it's not okay for trans people to be frustrated and suggest they get punched in their fucking face? Considering how disgusting terfs are, I'd say getting punched in the face is barely violent compared to what they actually deserve which is being drawn and quartered.'

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cuhv9nooWbC/?hl=en

And 3] the sense of persecution

without being able to provide any details of said persecution

Not just persecution, genocide, you monster! 😛 What a read this thread is this morning. Agree it's no bad thing that it's recorded in Vogue. And as @ArabeIIaScott rightly says, the violence of the language is telling. I am also in the Manchester area and would be interested in going to the book launch.

Incontinence of every kind.

Statement from Women's Place on the incident is solid on calling out the hypocrisy here:
https://womansplaceuk.org/2023/07/10/pride-protest-wpuk-statement-on-london-trans-pride-2023/

Statement from Sex Matters
Incitement to violence at Trans Pride
https://sex-matters.org/posts/updates/incitement-to-violence-at-trans-pride/

Interestingly Sex Matters points out Baker was encouraging people to arm themselves before the event. You can also read the various letters Sex Matters has sent to the authorities.

Article at Cap X
"We deserve more than the woeful response to Sarah Jane Baker’s ‘punch Terfs’ rant"
https://capx.co/we-deserve-more-than-the-woeful-response-to-sarah-jane-bakers-punch-terfs-rant/

I hope there weren’t children at this event - it could be really confusing and frightening to see so many adults who have harmed themselves (never mind the S&M paraphernalia on display).

All excellent letters, Sex Matters were very comprehensive and WPUK tieing it with the "words" bit from Khan's lip service campaign against VAWG.

There are always children at these events.

There was a poster arguing blind that drag queens were an art form not an identity. A character you put on and take off and that these men still know they are men, just performing.
So what the hall is a trans drag queen? Takes off persona but the makeup doesn't wash off?

Try telling that to stonewall who include drag queens under the transgender umbrella.

They are the ones saying it's an identity.

Has Khan made any response to these letters? Or the Met?
Or - like the misogynistic Tatchell, Clive Lewis etc, was Baker threatening the wrong kind of women for them to care?

Weaponising that poor transwoman's murder to 'own the terfs'. You should be ashamed.

Absolutely. Never one to miss a chance to have a dig no matter what the subject matter you choose to snark with, Merlin.