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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

“If you see a TERF, punch them in the fucking face!” Speech at Trans Pride London 8 July 2023

1000 replies

IwantToRetire · 09/07/2023 00:46

Sarah Jane Baker, on the Trans Pride stage, saying

“If you see a TERF, punch them in the fucking face!”

to a cheering crowd :)

https://twitter.com/unpopulargenz/status/1677790606561628160

NB to MNHQ the video shows this being said. It is not just an allegation being shared.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
74
user9630721458 · 11/07/2023 14:57

@MerlinsLostMarbles That is very sad, but how is it relevant? Are you claiming she was murdered by a self confessed TERF? How does a tragic murder in Greece relate to punching British TERFS in the face? How does anyone know who is a TERF on sight anyway, unless they are carrying a big sign?

SunnyEgg · 11/07/2023 14:57

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Yes it’s sad but how likely is it a woman is responsible

Unlikely

SunnyEgg · 11/07/2023 14:59

We really don’t threaten, attack or kill as much as men

Men can sort all this out in their own sex class, not ours.

MerlinsLostMarbles · 11/07/2023 14:59

SunnyEgg · 11/07/2023 14:57

Yes it’s sad but how likely is it a woman is responsible

Unlikely

It's already been well established that transphobes can be men or women.

RoseslnTheHospital · 11/07/2023 15:01

Literally no information about a suspect or motive in this tragic case yet look at the digs and snarks that Merlin is prepared to jump on anyway. Grim.

SunnyEgg · 11/07/2023 15:01

MerlinsLostMarbles · 11/07/2023 14:59

It's already been well established that transphobes can be men or women.

I repeat we don’t kill or attack as much as men.

Are you male out of interest?

MerlinsLostMarbles · 11/07/2023 15:03

SunnyEgg · 11/07/2023 15:01

I repeat we don’t kill or attack as much as men.

Are you male out of interest?

This isn't about whether killers are male or female.

RoseslnTheHospital · 11/07/2023 15:05

This tragic case is nothing to do with feminists and women's rights.

SunnyEgg · 11/07/2023 15:05

MerlinsLostMarbles · 11/07/2023 15:03

This isn't about whether killers are male or female.

Yes it is as a woman I’m happy to protect my sex class. Men can sort out their own issues.

Do you defend male violence from the viewpoint of a man?

Wondering who visits the Feminist board on mn with this anti women stance

zanahoria · 11/07/2023 15:26

ArabeIIaScott · 11/07/2023 10:25

More pictures of attendees here.

https://www.dazeddigital.com/life-culture/gallery/32399/8/trans-pride-in-london-2023

What strikes me most are:

  1. The relentless obsession with bodies in general and breasts in particular (which seem always to be called 'tits' or 'titties'). Breasts are on display, or crossed out with tape, or bondage ropes or leather straps, or removed, scarred, or 'pending' according to one sign.
  2. The violence of the language. 'fuck the cis-tem', 'fuck t*rfs', 'trans drag queens against brainless twats', 'trans is cunt', 'be trans do crime', etc.

I have no idea what 'trans is cunt' even means

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 11/07/2023 15:29

zanahoria · 11/07/2023 15:26

I have no idea what 'trans is cunt' even means

Quite the head scratcher isn’t it?

MrsTerryPratchett · 11/07/2023 15:34

MerlinsLostMarbles · 11/07/2023 15:03

This isn't about whether killers are male or female.

Never is, is it? Even though they almost all are.

Slothtoes · 11/07/2023 15:43

The key is for us to keep up the pressure on the Met, the Mayor, politicians and the media - to ask them if this is something they regard as acceptable. Force them to state a position on the topic. Get them to justify how a violent ex convict out on licence was able to issue such a threat on the streets of London with apparent impunity.

100% agree with you Chaz plus, urgently, our elected representatives in Parliament need to be held to account regarding the special treatment of certain special me. And held to account in public before next years’ general election!

For example asking:
Why would any government retain the Gender Recognition Act given safeguarding impact of allowing hiding previous identities and the GRA enshrining that you can’t even ask about these issues without breaking criminal law?
Surely people massing in public on days of ‘love and rage’ such as this shows that as a society we are moving well past any shame (rightly) about people being gender non-conforming (a good healthy thing!). So by retaining laws that support hiding previous identities like GRA, we are simply allowing bad actors to glom on to historical confidentiality protections that are now unnecessary and amount to a dangerous block to safeguarding.
-plus humans obviously can’t actually change sex anyway, so let’s stop pretending in law that they can which was done to satisfy conservative types who eg don’t believe in same sex marriage. Let’s actually accept gender non-conformity for all that it is- just a departure from sexist stereotypes about how men and women should look or behave which is in and of itself completely harmless.

We also need to challenge MPs on
-the completely unchallenged harassment and threats (including of death and of rape) sent to women who question this (including female MPs who have questioned) which always goes unpunished and in fact women have been in trouble with police for ‘misgendering’
-the unscrutinised medical experimentation on kids by NHS and private doctors which goes unpunished and the TRA charities that proselytise around that to vulnerable young people
-schools that are still promoting gender woo and now with ND kids coming under particular pressure to be kind and believe the woo
-the other examples of male prisoners being still housed in the female prison estate - Isla Bryson is not a one-off
-dangers to women’s physical safety and excellence in women’s sports when men are allowed to train and compete with them ‘as women’ (which is in reality impossible for any man to do)

All of this needs to be urgently addressed democratically so that we can restore safeguarding, give women and girls back their safety, privacy and dignity in public life, give LGB people back their rights to freely be same sex-attracted in peace, and take back captured institutions like EHRC and the NHS and prison services. Women have been raising these issues for decades now and the government has ignored us.

Ultimately the safety, dignity and privacy of the voting public and their kids are only as safe as the laws of the land we have.. and we all know that the least expensive and most democratic way to make any law is in Parliament. (Rather than via expensive and personally demanding crowd-funded litigation through the courts- as excellent and necessary as that has unfortunately been)

We have a general election next year so all political parties need to be coming up with answers to these questions and to understand that many women’s votes will depend on them thinking about these issues properly. Their policies must reflect women’s views and our lived experience of fuck all being done about this.

WickedSerious · 11/07/2023 15:44

MerlinsLostMarbles · 09/07/2023 13:07

You have kiwifarms and Nazis on your side.

The gender critical movement is hardly squeaky clean itself.

And that's Numberwang!!!

Slothtoes · 11/07/2023 15:52

plus, urgently, our elected representatives in Parliament need to be held to account regarding the special treatment of certain special me

Special MEN, not special me. Hmm

IwantToRetire · 11/07/2023 16:09

I have done a quick search to see if there have been any developments re SJB and probationary service, but cant find anything.

Let alone any politicians or the Met police owning up to this gross double standard in how trans people are given a free pass, but a woman on twitter or YouTube saying you cant change sex can be told they have to be interviewed by the police.

I know we all know this but there is a recent article by someone who is part of a group called the Counter Extremism Project, who is a a former prison governor and senior official in the U.K. Home Office with more than 25 years of experience of the U.K.’s criminal justice system. He lays out quite clearly how the system has failed (subverted accepted practice) in this case. https://capx.co/we-deserve-more-than-the-woeful-response-to-sarah-jane-bakers-punch-terfs-rant/

(I suspect he is someone I wont have much in common with, but he has the right background to make an informed comment)

We deserve more than the woeful response to Sarah Jane Baker's 'punch Terfs' rant - CapX

The Metropolitan Police’s women problem just won’t go away. Over the weekend, a trans woman with a violent history as a male appeared at the London Trans Pride festival. Sarah Jane Baker addressed a large crowd with a microphone and told them: ‘…if you...

https://capx.co/we-deserve-more-than-the-woeful-response-to-sarah-jane-bakers-punch-terfs-rant

OP posts:
fromorbit · 11/07/2023 17:00

It is probably too early for any official investigation to get reports back.

Besides the Home secretary it looks like some Tories have mentioned this on Twitter as has Rosie Duffield, and Joanne Cherry so the Police and Probation service will know they are being watched over this. Baker's situation depends on his particular probation officer and what else Baker has been up to. Might already have had some strikes. As that CapX article suggests Baker may be in trouble.

Solid Article in the Express :

Trans group was cheering violence against women - is this where we now are?
By ANGELA EPSTEIN
https://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/1789752/trans-violence-to-women-punch-terfs-in-the-face-Sarah-Jane-Baker

Trans people - who were born men - now cheered for saying women should be harmed

https://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/1789752/trans-violence-to-women-punch-terfs-in-the-face-Sarah-Jane-Baker

PonyPatter44 · 11/07/2023 17:06

Ian Acheson (the writer of the capx article) is actually a very decent man and I have no doubt he is outraged by this nonsense. I imagine he knows EXACTLY who to lean on in Probation to get Baker dealt with.

DerekFaker · 11/07/2023 17:30

zanahoria · 11/07/2023 15:26

I have no idea what 'trans is cunt' even means

I think it's possibly from drag slang. It stands for

Charisma, Uniqueness, Nerve and Talent.

Not misogynist at all of course.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 11/07/2023 17:34

PonyPatter44 · 11/07/2023 17:06

Ian Acheson (the writer of the capx article) is actually a very decent man and I have no doubt he is outraged by this nonsense. I imagine he knows EXACTLY who to lean on in Probation to get Baker dealt with.

Good to know - that was a very good article.
It's long overdue for our politicians to start behaving like adults and insisting that extreme trans activists start behaving in the same civilised way expected of everyone else. Their current uncritical approach to anything trans is responsible for too many people thinking there are no boundaries and no consequences for all behaviour - no matter how unacceptable or even criminal it is.

Boiledbeetle · 11/07/2023 17:36

DerekFaker · 11/07/2023 17:30

I think it's possibly from drag slang. It stands for

Charisma, Uniqueness, Nerve and Talent.

Not misogynist at all of course.

Ahh bless! can't believe Nerve was the best they could come up with though for N

RufustheSpecuIatingreindeer · 11/07/2023 17:37

user9630721458 · 11/07/2023 14:57

@MerlinsLostMarbles That is very sad, but how is it relevant? Are you claiming she was murdered by a self confessed TERF? How does a tragic murder in Greece relate to punching British TERFS in the face? How does anyone know who is a TERF on sight anyway, unless they are carrying a big sign?

Not relevant in the slightest

a man threatening to punch women in the face is exactly like women not killing people 😳

it doesn’t even make any sense 😳

i don’t know why I’m surprised

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 11/07/2023 17:39

Boiledbeetle · 11/07/2023 17:36

Ahh bless! can't believe Nerve was the best they could come up with though for N

I think nerve would have made more sense in the days when people were more likely to say things like ‘he’s got a nerve!’ You don’t hear it so much these days.

RufustheSpecuIatingreindeer · 11/07/2023 17:58

Oh I’ve got lots of N words but they are all nasty ones

whats a nice one? My minds gone blank (blanker)

NitroNine · 11/07/2023 18:12

”Be Trans Do Crime” has been taken from “Be Gay Do Crime” - it’s a “Queer Anarchy” thing; about how Pride was a riot & somehow trying to claim “Queer” people have a [moral] right to engage in criminality to overcome oppression & achieve their liberation. Sometimes people will say it’s a reference to fact being trans/gay is illegal in many countries. Would be quite interesting to find out how different people who wear slogan/hold sign with it on understand it; & if they understand that it reads as a threat not to the state but to any random individual.

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