Radio 4. Right now. Is freaking me out.

[OnePotPolly]

Transmen who want us all to accept that they are actual men. But they are a subset of men who can give birth to babies..
Which only women can do, in fact.

And still claim that they are men. After giving birth to babies. From their wombs.

And the presenter on R4 is actually going with it. And sympathising with the person that obviously men can give birth. Or is he just presenting it so that the audience can draw their own conclusions?

Whatever it is, it is winding me up no end. I have listened to R4 for the past 50 years - 50 YEARS!! every night without fail, while I potter about in the kitchen, tidying up and popping a bit of baking in the oven. I love radio 4, it has seen me through many traumas. Divorce, death of parents, death of sibling, permanently life altering illness of my child. Radio 4 has always been there as a stalwart support. A reality check. Reassurance that the rest of the world continues as normal - ordinary, normal even if it's bad news or a war between foreign nations. Right up to 1am and "Sailing By"

I love Sailing By. I find it, at the same time, both soothing and sad (because it's a reminder of times past)

But the shite that I've just listened to has totally wrecked it for me.
What a load of utter bollocks they have just allowed on air.

Unless they're just airing it to show how ludicrous and self absorbed some people can be. . . . .

Really hope that's what it turns out to be.

It’s really weird how much you seem to be blaming me for what’s happening to your club.
Of course I don't blame you personally but you don't seem to grasp that it is the reification of gender identity over sex that you believe in which is directly responsible for the situation in the club. It is the willful refusal to join the dots which is exasperating. If you really believe that gender identity is paramount then you should have no problem with a 50 year old male showering with girls - and yet you continue with your incoherent argument and pretend it's a reasonable position. There is no middle ground here I'm afraid.

Because I think ‘gaze’ comes from identity more than sex.

So does that mean you think all the cross dressing males who claim to identify as women who've sexually assaulted women, or post disgusting pornified stuff about women on social media, aren't "genuinely trans"?

Why shouldn't that person be in the changing room? Is it because you've decided they aren't "genuine"?

That patient that urinated on the floor during an examination would appear to have either a) a fetish
or b) a mental health issue or
c) exhibiting bad behaviour for attention

I knew a female Podiatrist who had a patient undo his trousers and tell her he had "problems with his ball sack and could she help? "He was removed from the surgery pronto and referred to a male Podiatrist.

I know of female Physios who have had young male patients start to 'handle themselves'/expose themselves during treatment. They got short shrift and were sent to a male Physio next time.

Healthcare professionals shouldn't have to tell adults what appropriate behaviour is.
If the patient doesn't know, then they need to be Sectioned under the Mental Health Act (1983) for their own protection. In the case of the patient referred to, it would be for their own protection because if they go around peeing in inappropriate places someone, somewhere will eventually smack them in the mouth.

It's really interesting, how professional types with overinflated opinions of themselves and their progressiveness, are willing to throw women and children under the bus because they listened to some male sob stories a couple of times. Any person who has had dealings with a clinical narcissist can recognise many of these as DARVO and manipulative emotional blackmail.

Try for once listening to some of the stories of the women and children affected by society's complete blindness on this issue. Not much compassion for them.

Another anti trans thread on aibu..

Stick to the feminism board.

I'm sure you know how to hide a thread. Click on the arrow.

Every time you post this. Just hide it.

It’s not hard.

@Bingbangbongbash it doesn’t matter if you see it as male gaze- some women being comfortable with tw in female spaces doesn’t override those that are. A female (or male) changing room isn’t a neutral space like a field or a bus, it has a default setting for which it was designed. Therefore it should not have its default setting changed unless possibly a majority of users want it to be. I say possibly because there are hundreds of odd and unique situations in the real world.

Also, male gaze is the product of primary and secondary socialisation of male children in a patriarchal, man centred society. Tw may not identify with their male bodies and transition at some point (although many don’t, they just choose to say their penis is a female penis), but that doesn’t alter their male gaze- it’s the socialisation they have gone through. Anne Oakley is a good source for reading on socialisation.

This is why the loudest, most aggressive and threatening voices in the trans rights lobby are people who were born and socialised as male- they have the entitlement that men are taught to have.

A male gaze is one that belongs to a male, no matter how they identify. That is not a "position", it is a simple fact.

Males are not females in any world; especially the real world which most people inhabit. Women are adult human females. Transwomen are adult human males who for whatever reason like to present in a streotypical feminine way.

I'm sorry if you feel that is cruel. But truth sometimes hurts.

It's quite obvious that this poster identifies as being right, and morally superior to other women, if indeed they are a woman. I don't think they care enough about whether they are actually right about it all to inform themselves by reading around the subject more widely. I'm doing this for bystanders and lurkers.

Why has this been moved from
AIBU???

Unbelievable

High yanbu votes upsetting the complainers

To prevent too many people seeing it. Has to be the only answer. Like the BBC, MN doesn't like these issues to be debated where many people can see them.

I thought MN had got past this sort of censorship. They are certainly not on the right side of history with this sort of shit - gender critical beliefs being protected and mainstream and all that - and didn't even bother with an explanatory message.

”you refer me” do you? The pomposity of it. Quite unbelievable.
as stated, if you want to contend that womanhood is defined by non-biological criteria, it’s on you to tell us what they are. You won’t, because you can’t. So no one is going to take you seriously however much you bloviate.

I think calling it a tactic might be over-estimating the brainpower being devoted to this tbh 😂

If you have agonising pelvic pain from SPD you are told you can take the full, max dose of paracetamol spaced over 24 hours to optimise the pain relief for as long as you need it. Which can mean weeks, even months if your symptoms start early. Mine started at 20 weeks with my first pregnancy.

@OnePotPolly have they told you why they moved your thread?

Ok sweetcheeks. Totes.

No, it’s because it’s a horrible thread, even for AIBU. You’ve done nothing but sea lion, attack ad hominem and be nasty. It’s a shame, because a few of you have really important stuff to say. But never mind. You can wallow in self righteousness whilst the rest of us laugh.

Twitter level.

It's odd that you're laughing, yesterday you were crying about people calling males male 🤷‍♀️

Why does this make you laugh?

Females who don’t want males in their spaces, who could have serious reasons for that and you laugh?

What have you been so influenced by to prioritise males and care so little about women and girls?