'Trans 4 times as likely to be victims of violent crimes'

[WhisperingAutistic]

Just having a bit of a do with my 20 year old DS and he hit me with that.

Is there data that shows otherwise? My Google skills are not pulling up much.

Cheers

I asked him if he was looking at American figures and he changed the subject.
Honestly, he's been spouting bollocks to me over messenger for over an hour.
Utter joke

The ones he is talking about are American and based on a self reported survey, I think.

Exactly this, @WhisperingAutistic

It's your son who needs to provide evidence, not you.

im always amazed at how many people will diminish the abuse trans people face by dismissing evidence. It is hard to be trans, and many live in fear. Is it so hard to believe people when they tell you about their experiences??

Yeah. You'd think they'd be more sympathetic to women's fears and concerns over abuse and the threat of violence because of that, wouldn't you?

Transgender women are substantially more likely to be murdered than transgender men, and transgender women of color are murdered much more frequently than white transgender women.

Which is the exact same situation with other members of their race and sex. Men are substantially more likely to be murdered than women, and black men are much more likely to be murdered than white men.

I don’t know why you’re typing this as some kind of “gotcha”, I am very sensitive to issues like this and acknowledge there’s a tension between the need for inclusivity and also the need for same sex places

it doesn’t mean I have to negate the issues facing trans people

you can care about more than one thing and still treat people respectfully

Also perhaps the non trans woman has probably experienced so so much shit over the course of her life that there comes a point when you almost stop noticing it's normalised

you can care about more than one thing and still treat people respectfully

Don't tell me about treating people respectfully, thanks. Tell the people demanding access to my spaces and calling me terf and bigot and all the rest of their lovely, lovely behaviour towards women.

I am GC but if my daughter turned round at 5 and told me she was in the wrong body, I would be fine for her to wear "boys clothes" and cut her hair short and do "boys things", I would tell her that she doesn't have to be a boy to do these things. I wouldn't shame her for her feelings, I'd talk about it with her in an age appropriate way and adopt a "wait and see" approach and hope she would wait until she was at the very least 21 before socially/medically transitioning.

During that time I'd talk to her about feminism, show her examples of women of all different ilks doing amazing things, I'd teach her misogyny is something to fight, not run from by disguising herself as male. We'd discuss puberty, ensure there was no shame and disgust surrounding discussions about menstrual cycles, show her how her sex doesn't have to define her personality, her wants and needs etc.

I believe your relative's depression has not come from a lack of transition but as a result of the hush-hush/dismissive attitude to their feelings and the shame their family felt.

It’s also worth remembering that a 50% rise in crimes against trans people doesn’t mean much if there has been a 50% rise in the number of trans people.

In terms of men being at risk in the male prison estate, I can feel compassion for them and want for there to be solutions to be found. But women are currently being endangered as the result of deliberate decisions by institutions which have been ideologically captured. The Scottish Prison Service have had a policy of placing male sex offenders into the female prison estate since 2014. Women have been challenging it for years and told that they were bigots or that 'female prisoners get raped by male prison guards anyway so...'. Women are deliberately being used as a resource to be utilised because their safety and dignity is so little regarded.

And a 50% rise from what figure? 10, 100, 100,000?

My Dd couldn’t walk home from school without getting beeped at by cars. It was something she had to put up with. The only time I reported it was when a large lorry (from a major store) actually slowed down and followed alongside her for a few seconds and whistled. We phoned up the store headquarters and they acted concerned but nothing came of it.
Would that little incident of many be a hate crime? It certainly scared her.

Things most women have experienced: groping, being called names and made to feel scared by suggestive comments. It’s just not seen as crimes.

As women who have experienced male violence/cat calling/abuse etc I would hope we could all agree that it’s always bad?

this is also true when applied to trans people (or any other minority group)

Again - we can care about abuse of others while also caring about VAWG. Why is that so hard for people??

Surely every statistic shows that men are more likely to be the victims of violent crime than women or "trans". Men are more likely to be involved in violent crime both as perpetrator and victim, by very significant margins.

80,000+ male prisoners v. 3,000+ female prisoners in the UK

I'm really sorry to hear that. I believe that everyone should try to treat people with respect and compassion. I hope things improve for your relative.

Human society needs to debate, deal with and decide on the best mechanisms to live alongside transgender people. We have organised society on the basis of sex for thousands of years - we need to decide if and if so, how this will be done? Unfortunately, this can't be done on an individual basis- it needs to be set in law for everyone - ie no male-born transgender people in female prisons ever - the choice is general or specialist male prison.

A bill to address street harrassment (in the main experienced by women and girls) was passed earlier this year. It's just telling that it's taken this long for anything to be done -

inews.co.uk/news/public-sex-harassment-bill-explained-wolf-whistling-prison-1645355

www.gov.uk/government/consultations/creating-an-offence-of-public-sexual-harassment/public-sexual-harassment-consultation

www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/street-harassment-laws-explained-mps-approve-crime-b1017316.html

Violent crimes from whom males or females?

It's like saying men are xx% more likely to be the victim of crime. But the perpetrators are also menZ

If you happened to have a kid who told you they were the wrong sex at age 5 (before any exposure to any ideas about it) what would you do?

Tell them they are the right sex and let them know I loved them, that they were perfect the way they are, and that boys can play with dolls and girls can like trucks.

Most of us here have raised kids or in care of small children and understand that children before the age of 5 think lots of imaginative and inaccurate things. Like believing they are animals, superheroes and that they can marry momma when they grow up (DD wanted to marry me-we we're going to have flowers and Skittles at our wedding).

Trans people do not try and get other people to transition! Have you ever met a trans person ?

Yes thank you for adding those links. It will be interesting to see how that develops.

Hard data, like the demographics that break down # of dead bodies by murder can be found in FBI and CDC - both government agencies. These show that the demographic groups with the highest rates of violence against them are Black men (murder), Native American young men/teens (suicide) and Jews (hate crimes). Note, in the US "hate speech" is not a legal concept.

In US, 2022 trans day of remembrance our president noted 32 murders of trans individuals. Pew Research estimates 1.6% of US population is trans. Similar population rate for Native American men. In 2022, 334 Native American men were murdered. So, tell me again which people are most at risk of the most severe violence? 32 vs 334.

Native American women in some states have an 8x higher rate of murder than all other women, including Black women.

Where the hell is THEIR day of remembrance?

Feel free to tell your son to go look up US rates on actual dead body count government sites. It's free information for anyone to access.

CDC.gov
FBI.gov

I don't think the data is very helpful tbh. We are not comparing like for like populations. We know that people who are trans identifying are much more likely to be care experiencers, autistic and sexually abused. People with those characteristics are much more vulnerable to all sorts of further shit including abuse and violence. So we need to compare a sub sample with those vulnerabilities to the trans group.

In addition we need to remember that the powers that be chose NOT to make misogyny a hate crime. Whilst transphobia is.

If you happened to have a kid who told you they were the wrong sex at age 5 (before any exposure to any ideas about it) what would you do?

What they have been exposed to lots of by the age of 5 is stereotypes. It's peak age for thinking long hair + pink = girl, and for applying social pressure to classmates if they aren't complying with your newly discovered overgeneralisations. I would assume that like many 5 yr olds, they had got the wrong end of the stick about what sex means. Like any other 5 yr old misunderstanding, we'd talk and straighten it out, and see what it is they actually wanted. It's probably as simple as someone telling them girls can't have spiderman packed lunch boxes.