Male and Gender Critical

[Letmespeak82]

Anyone else find being associated with some of the male Gender Critical activists a bit…well embarrassing? I’m not even going to deal with the dumpster fire that is Glinner (though it seems many on this board love him). But now we have James Esses who is hyper focused on what this woman is wearing. What difference does it make if she wears revealing clothes or not? Typical gross male attitude.

You're really avoiding the question. I asked about the woman's intent and reason for her choice. Yes it's complicated but your discussion doesn't even mention it. You exclusively talk about others perceptions of her. I'm not.just looking for a simple answer. I'm looking forbyou to even vaguely address the point rather than switch it to something different.

If you can write 3 paragraphs to discuss men and societal views on what women wear, surely.you can write a paragraph or two on the intent of the woman wearing the clothes?

I assume she dresses that way in order to draw sexually motivated attention in order to create opportunities to announce her asexuality.

Tree falls in the woods, can anyone hear it, etc etc.

And back in the real world, there was petition by schoolgirls to get school uniforms banned from being sold in sex shops and used in porn

I wouldn't say that. my concern is much narrower. I have a problem with people thinking revealing clothes are a sign of sexual thoughts or inclinations.

Spoken sounds have no inherent meaning either, I mean, come on. Is that really where we are in this conversation? It's like a 14 year old view of the world.

I'm not sure who has denied the existence of asexual people. I'm not even sure there's been that many threads or posts about asexuality, although tbf I haven't done a search.

But my point stands - what rights don't asexual people have and why do they need to be included in EA?

I have a problem with people thinking revealing clothes are a sign of sexual thoughts or inclinations.

I’m afraid you are too good for this world, or massively deluded.

How can anyone know anyone else's intent? We don't interview everyone we see in public spaces.

Plus, people can be unconscious or oblivious.

You want me to say what you want me to say - but unfortunately that is not how exchange of ideas, thoughts and communication works. You cannot control it, or dictate which way you want it to go.

You are trying to acheive a " gotcha".

If a man was dressed in bondage gear and say, followed you into a toilet you'd be 'sure, he's fine, nothing sexual going on here' right?

Clearly!

But who are you to say what every single women is thinking, feeling, desiring or anything else?

I'm like you. Have not worn heels since I was your daughter's age, I imagine ( 15) and have never done the conventional 'sexy' thing since then. But so many girls and women do. You're right it is both concerning and disappointing.

Now I've seen the photos its not bandage gear at all. Its fishnets with a short leather skirt and bra let. That is not necessarily saying I want sex. When I was young I w9re revealing clothes more for me and the other girls although yes men found it attractive. Some of the attitudes of people saying they are gc don't sound very gc. They sound quite Conservative and telling women and men how to behave.
Someone told me off earlier for subverting norms! Imagine if women never subverted norms feminism would never have started. Women being allowed to work and have bank accounts was subverting norms! H
Jesus.

Just curious. When said person gets dressed in said revealing clothing how do you think they are seeking to present themselves publicly?

Sorry mn will not allow me to type bondage

Have you ever asked anyone who dresses like that? In my experience they are a bit dim and spend a lot if time wondering why men pester them for sex and don't see them as gf material. I've had many a chat with teen to almost 30s adults who really really do not understand the message they are giving. Dressed like her or worse. Painted face. Essentially like they are in porn. They don't know! They think men might love them like they do others. They do not make the connections maybe they just lack analytical skills.

Have you ever considered that not wearing clothes that are designed to show off your body in conventionally 'sexy' ways for public attention might be a subversive act? That's certainly how the early feminists would have seen it.

Women's clothes and shoes have always ben designed to accentuate secondary sexual characteristics; and are often uncomfortable and restrictive too.

So just normal 'day at the office' wear then?

You'll probably be told they don't dress for anyone else but "for themselves". and that it doesn't matter how others perceive the way we dress, or something........which is such a naive cliche.

Of course we dress for others too because we are social creatures and we live a society and culture which allocates meanings to things. If you are trying to " subvert" those meanings that still entails playing around with the conventional meaning - thus you are associating yourself with that. You are reacting, not being an originator. and you will still be subject to conventional meaning.

The same when a man tries to present himself as a woman by dressing in streotypical female clothing - He thinks he is subverting gender norms - and he may well be in his attire, but people can still see he is a man. You cannot control how people perceive you. and how people perceive you matters, certainly if you want people to co-operate with you; or welcome you; or employ you; or date you, or whatever.

Let's stop the nonsense;

if I wore a leather bra and shorts to my Lesbian social group they'd think I was into BDSM. If then I said I was asexual they'd avoid me (rightly) as an attention-seeking weirdo.

Clothes have a socio-cultural meaning. When I came out publically I stopped wearing my very fun menswear (sigh) as I didn't want my fellow Lesbians to think I was a Butch. I'm not.

Then you should be supportive of asexuals.

I'll be supportive of whomever I damned well please.

To define one's whole identity around your sexuality or lack of it, really does seem silly to me.

I can agree with this. That’s why I don’t like when (usually women) have no personality other than men and kids.
Boring as hell.

It's a fad! You don't need to go around advertising your interest in sex, or lack of it, to everyone. Who cares? Why does it matter?

Also agree with this. I often wonder about all of these questions when people start to talk about their sex lives. Why would I want to hear this? Or how they trying for a baby, whu would anyone need to know they are rawdogging it now?
And why does it matter, indeed?

But I guess that’s how many people are.
So what’s a couple of asexual voices in there too?