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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Male and Gender Critical

311 replies

Letmespeak82 · 04/07/2023 20:32

Anyone else find being associated with some of the male Gender Critical activists a bit…well embarrassing? I’m not even going to deal with the dumpster fire that is Glinner (though it seems many on this board love him). But now we have James Esses who is hyper focused on what this woman is wearing. What difference does it make if she wears revealing clothes or not? Typical gross male attitude.

Male and Gender Critical
Male and Gender Critical
OP posts:
AlisonDonut · 05/07/2023 21:18

YouAreNotBatman · 05/07/2023 20:59

I don’t have time or patience for riddles.

You know you are the Riddler in your particular scenario.

TeiTetua · 05/07/2023 21:32

NotHavingIt · 05/07/2023 17:31

What might that be?

(When I said "as far as uncomfortable and restrictive" clothing goes, this is the time of year when women have a distinct advantage over men"

It seems obviously true, but I'll answer anyway.

For any kind of formal situation, including most jobs, men are expected to wear shoes covering the entire foot, long trousers, full upper coverage, maybe a jacket, maybe a tie. Women can get by with a lot less--maybe sandals, bare legs (usually), short sleeves or no sleeves, lighter material everywhere. It makes for a major contrast in summer.

QueenHippolyta · 05/07/2023 21:46

@YouAreNotBatman about 10-15years ago there was an asexual ( she said so) in my online social group. She seemed perfectly nice, not a leather bra in sight, but could not find a partner. Lesbians like sex; like most people.
So, join or start a real life and online social group for asexuals. Make friends and I hope you find a partner. If your friend asks why you are single. Feel free to say " I haven't met the right person in my asexual social group."

That's it, it's not terribly deep nor complex. You're not super special. Neither am I. Enjoy being a regular person; it's great.

Hepwo · 06/07/2023 01:57

TeiTetua · 05/07/2023 21:32

(When I said "as far as uncomfortable and restrictive" clothing goes, this is the time of year when women have a distinct advantage over men"

It seems obviously true, but I'll answer anyway.

For any kind of formal situation, including most jobs, men are expected to wear shoes covering the entire foot, long trousers, full upper coverage, maybe a jacket, maybe a tie. Women can get by with a lot less--maybe sandals, bare legs (usually), short sleeves or no sleeves, lighter material everywhere. It makes for a major contrast in summer.

And yet men make the rules!

Instead of changing those rules they line up behind men wanting to dress as women!

Go figure.

Boiledbeetle · 06/07/2023 02:09

TeiTetua · 05/07/2023 21:32

(When I said "as far as uncomfortable and restrictive" clothing goes, this is the time of year when women have a distinct advantage over men"

It seems obviously true, but I'll answer anyway.

For any kind of formal situation, including most jobs, men are expected to wear shoes covering the entire foot, long trousers, full upper coverage, maybe a jacket, maybe a tie. Women can get by with a lot less--maybe sandals, bare legs (usually), short sleeves or no sleeves, lighter material everywhere. It makes for a major contrast in summer.

Unless you work at the council. For some reason they attract a lot of men who like to wear shorts and socks with sandals in the summer, especially in the highways department. Although my data is about fifteen years out of date!

YouAreNotBatman · 06/07/2023 05:02

@TinselAngel & @AlisonDonut , the comment was for Hepwo, it made no sense.

@QueenHippolyta
I was talking to those people who thinks asexuals should just stay silent and never talk about themselves (or at least this part of them) and sit there silently, when others get to talk about themselves just fine.

That’s what I think most asexuals want, to just be able to be who they are in peace.
Hopefully one day asexuality will be more known and accepted and I can be honest with the people I care about.
Right now everyone in my life just think I love being single (I don’t) so I don’t have anyone to talk to and have any support.
People wouldn’t understand.

Thanks for calling me normal, though, usually - on this matter - I get screamed at how abnormal I am. They way your comment started, I though you were heading that way too, well you did, but it took a snap turn…

MeowOnceForOffended · 06/07/2023 06:52

And I don't have time for feigned stupidity
.Yet here we are.

Florissante · 06/07/2023 06:58

Youarenotbatman's posts leap from one height of hyperbole to the next. It should be clear in the responses to those posts that no one cares.

NotHavingIt · 06/07/2023 08:01

YouAreNotBatman · 05/07/2023 19:38

I’ve never made any statements of it, no one IRL knows I’m asexual.

And even if I did TALK ABOUT IT, why not? I’m allowed to talk about myself. People have asked me why I’m single, all I do is shrug. But I would like to answer honetly: that dating as an asexual is bloody hard. Just like my friend, wothout asking tells me about their dating life, their sex lives (that I don’t want to hear about).
Why should asexuals lurk in the shadows?

This place has really made their minds up that anything non-straight-married-with-kids is making it all up for attention, when in reality it’s just PART of their lives.

Nobody is bothered about your lack of sexual feeling except for you.

I’m not bothered about my asexuality. Comments and ignorance like this does bother me.
And you can see just on this thread many are bothered about asexuality, it clearly written down.

You seem always to have started from the conclusion that everyone who post on this particular board is heterosexual, married and with children. Why is that?

I'm not familar with your username, so maybe you are new ti this board - but what irks people here, especially, about identity labels is that they tend to be assocuiated with the LGBTQ+ community with its ever expanding number of identities - all with their own flag. Young people ( I know you are not young) tend now to fel they have to have a label for every aspect of their personality, character or being.

The queer community ( you say you don't see yourself as apart of theis'community') revolves around identities linked to sex or sexuality - making sexual orinetation the central defining feature of their life. The identities are also politicised; tghey are not neutral.

Are you on the autistic spectrum ( genuine question) as people who are can often experience difficulties in forming relationships.

NotHavingIt · 06/07/2023 08:13

TeiTetua · 05/07/2023 21:32

(When I said "as far as uncomfortable and restrictive" clothing goes, this is the time of year when women have a distinct advantage over men"

It seems obviously true, but I'll answer anyway.

For any kind of formal situation, including most jobs, men are expected to wear shoes covering the entire foot, long trousers, full upper coverage, maybe a jacket, maybe a tie. Women can get by with a lot less--maybe sandals, bare legs (usually), short sleeves or no sleeves, lighter material everywhere. It makes for a major contrast in summer.

Yes, htis double standard is an interesting feature. You see it with newsreaders too. The men are always more formally dressed, but often the women have their arms exposed, or sometimes even their cleavage. Personally think that looks quite conspicuous and even 'unprofessional' - and also highlights the way that women are primarily judged on their looks and their body and so are given a freer and wider range of clothing items.

Clothing is often the primary means of creative expression for many women, and they devote a lot of time and energy to buying clothes and make-up.

Women going to the office in high heels ( and sometimes short skirts) is considered standard prcatice, and now and then you even hear of companies that actively request that female staff wear heels. I think we all know of the sexual overtones associated with high heels.

Female pop stars often have the minimal clothing too. Clothing which draws attention to their legs, breasts and bottom, and which accompanies highly sexually suggestive dance moves.

AlisonDonut · 06/07/2023 08:35

I am not convinced that Asexual hasn't been added to the Alphabet Soup People to further confound all the issues.

So, looking at the Alphabet soup now:

L - Lesbians - anyone whose gender is female being attracted to anyone else whose gender is female [so males or females]

G - Gays- anyone whose gender is male being attracted to anyone else whose gender is male [so males or females]

B - Bi - Anyone attracted to anyone [so males or females]

Trans - anyone who says they are trans

Asexuals - anyone who says they do not want sex or do not have [a] sex

I - intersex - anyone who says they are intersex or have a DSD

So LGB has moved away from same sex attraction to become anyone who wants attention for whatever reason to do with sex, no sex and anything in between.

WandaWomblesaurus · 06/07/2023 08:38

"Asexual people deserve to be protected by the Equality Act. We deserve to be protected by the ban on conversion therapy. We should not be pathologised in the ICD. I'm going to keep campaigning for that and wearing fishnet tights, so prepare to be mad for a while."

But what is she saying? Who is pathologising her? Who is trying to convert her? Who even knows you are asexual unless you are telling them?

She's the one saying she will do it in fishnets and that's going to make people mad. Why does she think this is so? She obviously thinks fishnets are provocative so why are you even asking this question OP? Maybe you should be asking her why she thinks anyone gives a flying fuck about her sexuality or her fishnets.

YouAreNotBatman · 06/07/2023 08:44

NotHavingIt · 06/07/2023 08:01

You seem always to have started from the conclusion that everyone who post on this particular board is heterosexual, married and with children. Why is that?

I'm not familar with your username, so maybe you are new ti this board - but what irks people here, especially, about identity labels is that they tend to be assocuiated with the LGBTQ+ community with its ever expanding number of identities - all with their own flag. Young people ( I know you are not young) tend now to fel they have to have a label for every aspect of their personality, character or being.

The queer community ( you say you don't see yourself as apart of theis'community') revolves around identities linked to sex or sexuality - making sexual orinetation the central defining feature of their life. The identities are also politicised; tghey are not neutral.

Are you on the autistic spectrum ( genuine question) as people who are can often experience difficulties in forming relationships.

I’ve never said a word about queer community.

No, I am not autistic.
And I don’t have ’difficulties’ forming relationships. I do have trouble finding a like-minded person.
But trying to make this into me having a problem, is incorrect.

NotHavingIt · 06/07/2023 08:46

YouAreNotBatman · 06/07/2023 08:44

I’ve never said a word about queer community.

No, I am not autistic.
And I don’t have ’difficulties’ forming relationships. I do have trouble finding a like-minded person.
But trying to make this into me having a problem, is incorrect.

I was explaining why identity labels were disapproved of on this forum. they are associated with the 'queer' community.

Your post made it sound like you experience your asexuality as a problem yourself - because you said you have no support and no-one to talk to.

WandaWomblesaurus · 06/07/2023 08:46

AlisonDonut · 05/07/2023 18:56

Why would you BE at PRIDE if you were not interested in sex or sexualities?

It's like going to a train station and hanging around if you don't want to catch a train and aren't interested in trains. And if you take a camera and clipboard and tick a box every time a train goes through people will think you are interested in trains.

It makes no sense.

I know right - is it not just wanting to be at the party? Everyone and their goat now thinks they are under the rainbow flag.

Summer2023hasarrived · 06/07/2023 09:00

AlisonDonut · 06/07/2023 08:35

I am not convinced that Asexual hasn't been added to the Alphabet Soup People to further confound all the issues.

So, looking at the Alphabet soup now:

L - Lesbians - anyone whose gender is female being attracted to anyone else whose gender is female [so males or females]

G - Gays- anyone whose gender is male being attracted to anyone else whose gender is male [so males or females]

B - Bi - Anyone attracted to anyone [so males or females]

Trans - anyone who says they are trans

Asexuals - anyone who says they do not want sex or do not have [a] sex

I - intersex - anyone who says they are intersex or have a DSD

So LGB has moved away from same sex attraction to become anyone who wants attention for whatever reason to do with sex, no sex and anything in between.

Yes the LGB movement has been taken by the Alphabet soup people who are screaming for their rights whilst most people don't even know what the vast range of the Alphabet soup people even stand for.

AlisonDonut · 06/07/2023 09:37

In half an hour we will know if lesbian gay and bisexual people are even allowed their own charity.

YouAreNotBatman · 06/07/2023 09:41

NotHavingIt · 06/07/2023 08:46

I was explaining why identity labels were disapproved of on this forum. they are associated with the 'queer' community.

Your post made it sound like you experience your asexuality as a problem yourself - because you said you have no support and no-one to talk to.

Ah. Okey, I’ve never had any involvement or interest in anything ’queer’.
Back in the day I only spend sometime in asexual sites.

Well, this place alone has now multiple time said that ”no one cares and keep it to yourself, no one wants to hear, don’t make it into your whole personality, don’t force your sex life/lack there of it to others”.
I pointed out that, I at least, don’t do what people here accuse of asexual of doing.

NotHavingIt · 06/07/2023 09:53

YouAreNotBatman · 06/07/2023 09:41

Ah. Okey, I’ve never had any involvement or interest in anything ’queer’.
Back in the day I only spend sometime in asexual sites.

Well, this place alone has now multiple time said that ”no one cares and keep it to yourself, no one wants to hear, don’t make it into your whole personality, don’t force your sex life/lack there of it to others”.
I pointed out that, I at least, don’t do what people here accuse of asexual of doing.

Being aware of the thread starter may go some way to explaining the way the conversation has gone.It was somebody claiming an asexual identity who nontheless wears very provocative, sexualised clothing. Advertsing to the world, very overtly, one type of thing, whilst proclaiming another.

AlisonDonut · 06/07/2023 10:26

YouAreNotBatman · 06/07/2023 09:41

Ah. Okey, I’ve never had any involvement or interest in anything ’queer’.
Back in the day I only spend sometime in asexual sites.

Well, this place alone has now multiple time said that ”no one cares and keep it to yourself, no one wants to hear, don’t make it into your whole personality, don’t force your sex life/lack there of it to others”.
I pointed out that, I at least, don’t do what people here accuse of asexual of doing.

The just say they don't care, don't they?

It is you making the rest up.

QueenHippolyta · 06/07/2023 11:14

@YouAreNotBatman I started with the Lesbian community to show you that Asexuals don't belong there.
You need your own group, so stop moaning and get organizing.
And get used to being not the majority which active heterosexual people are. Of they don't care!
No one gives a damn about lesbian social problems except my Lesbian social group .
That's the way it is. And it's totally normal.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 06/07/2023 11:32

I find it both chilling and rapey, that it's being pushed at a time when many young people are being medicated/ operated on into having no sexual function.

It was actually used by a lawyer in the Keira Bell hearing as a partial justification for why puberty blockers wouldn't necessarily ruin a child's life if they couldn't ever have an orgasm. "Lots of people are asexual".

https://twitter.com/sorxxx_/status/1314880173142048768?s=46&t=SPorwN-mokktL467rcZ57g

Florissante · 06/07/2023 11:46

AlisonDonut · 06/07/2023 10:26

The just say they don't care, don't they?

It is you making the rest up.

I certainly said "No one cares" but I did not say "keep it to yourself".

Rudderneck · 06/07/2023 13:16

As far as this idea about asexuals having sex and even wanting it in some sense, I suspect part of it is the people who talk about these divisions have a very narrow idea about what sexual desire is meant to look like.

This is why they claim that "demisexual" is a sexuality - the idea that someone might want sex only with feelings of attachment is seen as somehow different than just a normal personality thing that might even be just for a period in life.

Similarly, my friend's dickhead husband recently "came out" to he as polysexual, which is to say, he'd like to shag other women.

Realistically, the idea that people will only have sex for reasons of sexual desire, or lust, or whatever you want to call it, is unrealistic. There are lots of valid reasons for people to have sex. Getting pregnant being the most obvious, but also a desire for intimacy, or because they are marries/in a relationship they value with someone who would like to have sex, etc. There is a big difference between not being super sexually motivated and actively not wanting sex in terms of how someone might make decisions about relationships.

It used to be that adults were considered capable of making decisions based on their long and short term feelings and commitments about all of this, and didn't have to label it. Now they do seem to want those labels, but since there are millions of people with different circumstances and goals, it's pretty impossible.

MsRosley · 06/07/2023 14:21

NotTerfNorCis · 04/07/2023 21:19

Clothes are not 'just clothes' though. We wear different clothes for different occasions. For instance, you might wear smart business dress to meet a customer, but slob around in an old jumper when working from home.

This. If you follow OP's logic, clothes don't convey meaning in any way. In which case it would be absolutely fine to turn up to an important client meeting in your pyjamas, as it would in no way signal you're not committed to winning that new contract.