Male and Gender Critical

[Letmespeak82]

Anyone else find being associated with some of the male Gender Critical activists a bit…well embarrassing? I’m not even going to deal with the dumpster fire that is Glinner (though it seems many on this board love him). But now we have James Esses who is hyper focused on what this woman is wearing. What difference does it make if she wears revealing clothes or not? Typical gross male attitude.

There's an argument to be made that wen sexuality became enmeshed with identity politics, it was inevitable that there would be a huge fragmentation of sexual identities.

Of course originally the idea of sexuality only arose at all because there are different biological consequences (no babies, mainly) and different social treatment (in some societies.) And worth noting the concept of sexuality is not present in many, maybe most, societies.

Then more latterly it emerged as important in an effort to change legal and social views on same sex partnerships/relationships.

But I don't think it's untrue to say that overall, much of the gay community has embraced sexuality as identity, in addition to all of that. I would say it's been pretty influential in terms of creating a certain perspective on identity in general.

It's a world currently of words not meaning what they've always meant. People changing the meaning to suit their own needs/wants. It's driving my loopy.

Surely if someone was genuinely 'asexual' e.g. really not interested in sex, uncomfortable with it etc, they'll be pissed off at a redefinition into 'might want to have sex after all'? Because their focus would be very much on avoiding sex and not under any circumstances being expected to do it.

@Letmespeak82 Why did you wear revealing clothes to a club? If you checked your outfit in the mirror before you went out then you at least cared a little about how you looked which means you cared how others looked at you. Of course this doesn’t mean you wanted sex/sexual attention from others although for some women that might genuinely be their intention for dressing in a certain way. But I’m assuming that you didn’t feel you looked worse for wearing a revealing outfit?

Well, yes.
Those people would be taking a piss out of asexuals.
And causing them harm, potentially.

What, asexual tells someone/to a date (yes, asexuals might want a relationship) they are asexual and they can then just turn and say: ”well, asexuals do have sex, so how about it”?
Awful!
People barely take asexuals seriously or respectfully, and these peoplw have turned them into a total joke.

The OP tried to impune the wonderful James Esses, saying;
"Well that’s my basic point. When we wear revealing clothes we are not asking some man to come along and have sex with us. They’re just clothes. Presumably she thinks she looks good and more power to her."

I pointed out that the woman in a bondage outfit would get the same reaction in my Lesbian social group.

It's fake outrage and of course she ignores me as I've disproved the point. This is all about trying to pit women against great GC men.

And though I mention it here often to make a point. I regard myself as a regular person, a woman, who happens to be same-sex attracted. It is not my identity.

Nobody is " against" you haveing no sexual feelings - what they object to is another formal and unnecessary identity label and the set of demands that tend to go with those. Nobody is bothered about your lack of sexual feeling except for you. Why do you fel the need to make a big statement of it? For what end?

I've certainly learnt a lot from this thread.

1. There are a lot of people who could start a row in an empty room.

2. There is at least one asexual person who feels that asexual people are victims of discrimination. I'm not sure how they are discriminated against but I'm open to be given an explanation.

3. People wear attention-grabbing clothing to Pride marches (who'd have thought) and at least one of these people is asexual.

4. Men may or may not be allowed to be gender critical.

The point is that it doesn't really matter what you intend or don't intend, or if you have no intention at all ( which I doubt very much) when it coes to selecting what to wear; the point is that you cannot control the reception.

It is extremely naive to imagine that people don't make judgements about others based on any number of factors; clothing and presentation being one of them But you know that anyway.

I've no idea what individual women intend? How would I know?

I think many people, especially of more youthful/reproductive ages are interested in appearing as attractive as possible - wanting to attract positive attention; have people say nice or flattering things about their clothes, or their figure. They tend to know what flatters them and wear clothes which highlight their best bits, and so on.

Why would you BE at PRIDE if you were not interested in sex or sexualities?

It's like going to a train station and hanging around if you don't want to catch a train and aren't interested in trains. And if you take a camera and clipboard and tick a box every time a train goes through people will think you are interested in trains.

It makes no sense.

It all depends on what you think Pride is for. If you think that it is for anybody who isn't heteronormative (I think that's the right word) then it would include asexual people.

Years ago, I went to a London Pride event out of curiosity with a lesbian friend. It was fine but nothing that interested me enough to go back a second time.

I do not know anything about that.
Asexuals don’t feel sexual attraction nor do they have sex.
Anyone saying anything else is a groomer/abuser/troll/idiot/absolutely not an asexual.

Take it up with Stonewall

"Asexuality should not be confused with celibacy. Celibacy is a choice to abstain from sex, whereas for some asexuality is a lack of sexual attraction. Those who do not experience sexual attraction may choose to have sex for other reasons."

www.stonewall.org.uk/about-us/news/six-ways-be-ally-asexual-people

I recall when girlguiding were pushing asexual on pre teens there was a sincere poster who said they absolutely had sex and it was part of her asexual identity. It was very wide eyed and earnest and she argued and argued and in no way could it have been a wind up.
I can't find the thread though. Think it was one that escaped into aibu because a lot of the aibu lot were rather confused and shocked by the revelations.

So yes, you're rather behind the times. Asexual has been coopted so it can be applied to grown adults who have sex and children and teens who don't.

Personally I think that was a deliberate act.

It's either a way of getting the generation of young people with no sexual function to have sex anyway, and/ or it means you can say to them "what does it matter if you have no sexual function, asexual people exist"

It's fucking terrifying.

Did you go in bondage gear?

I think a woman having sex without feeling sexual attraction isn't a rare occurrence.

Once upon a time I thought "progressive" sex education would spell an end to that. Lesbians would be free to come out earlier, and straight women empowered to say "no" in iffy situations and "no" to unsatisfying sex.

How stupid was I?

Of course! I was told "come as you are".

I’ve never made any statements of it, no one IRL knows I’m asexual.

And even if I did TALK ABOUT IT, why not? I’m allowed to talk about myself. People have asked me why I’m single, all I do is shrug. But I would like to answer honetly: that dating as an asexual is bloody hard. Just like my friend, wothout asking tells me about their dating life, their sex lives (that I don’t want to hear about).
Why should asexuals lurk in the shadows?

This place has really made their minds up that anything non-straight-married-with-kids is making it all up for attention, when in reality it’s just PART of their lives.

Nobody is bothered about your lack of sexual feeling except for you.

I’m not bothered about my asexuality. Comments and ignorance like this does bother me.
And you can see just on this thread many are bothered about asexuality, it clearly written down.

Well that person and stonewall can go and sit on a cactus!
How dare they undo everything that has been tried to build so far!?
I don’t know what their agenda is, but this is no shape or form asexuality
Thats’s like saying gay man only has and likes to have sex with women.
Or going to a vegan restaurant and ask for meet and dairy.

Personally I think that was a deliberate act.

What do you mean?
To undermine asexuals? To make them a joke? To trying to get / force asexuals to have sex?
I know lot of people get angry at the thougjt of some people not having sex, but this is crazy!

@YouAreNotBatman well again, you might want to gatekeep the meaning of asexual, but like woman and lesbian they've been targeted so they're open to interpretation now. Not by the people in fwr btw, just in case you'd like to pin it on us.

I'd suggest you think of who stands to gain by women having less and less boundaries. I'm married/I'm a lesbian/I'm asexual used to be a boundary that men couldn't cross. Except turn those things into a spectrum rather than an absolute and now you've got to come up with another reason for your boundary. And any woman over 12 knows how hard certain men push at boundaries.

I'd then ask you who do you think gains by conflating lack of sexual feelings(normal in childhood) with a sexual identity that has sex without having desire. Who stands to gain from blurring this boundary.

Queer theory is all about blurring boundaries. We need to start asking why.

Thats’s like saying gay man only has and likes to have sex with women.

This is also happening. Although obviously far more normal for lesbians to be targeted by men.

Everyone hates vegans. We'll never have our own little flag lol

I was going to add that what really got people fired up, was the fact that she’s asexual.
This place really can’t stand asexuality, for whatever reason.

Whatever reason? You have come to a conclusion of what this place can't stand but can only say whatever about the reason for your conclusion?

Heck.

I don’t have time or patience for riddles.

I've spelled out twice on this thread why I think "the asexuals can have sex" narrative is a thing.