Apparently middle-aged women ‘hold key to winning the next election’.

[MmePoppySeedDefage]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/400763a6-18f6-11ee-8434-240b5ab9f9b1?shareToken=2738fe2529f30cbb2a569d3b44a75d6bb_

That's quite a poetic post! Like a political campaigner's version of the Narcissist's Prayer

I'm furious with Keir Starmer & with the Greens for letting women down. So the election result depends on us even though we're politically homeless due to the major parties disparaging, abusing attitudes towards women. Maybe Party of Women (POW!) really do need to step up,

Look

the Labour Party identity as the representatives of working people and it is simply unkind for you to notice that they often display outright contempt for those people

suck it up and get voting bigot

Being I've been made politically homeless over the last decade due to the inability of politicians being able to define me as an actual, born female woman is.
They will be waiting for my vote.

To be fair, I'm a former Labour apologist myself. After the Gordon Brown - Gillian Duffy encounter I was angry with Sky News, with Gillian Duffy - with everyone except Gordon Brown. I even remember speculating with friends about whether Duffy was a Tory party plant. So I do recognise the behaviour.

Can you explain the thought process that made you blame the victim in that scenario.

I'll try. It's uncomfortable and embarrassing but I think it's worth doing if it offers an insight into how other people might think.

My first stab at answering is that I was so anxious for Labour to win (or failing that, for the Tories not to win) that I saw any protest from within as a betrayal, and so my instinct was to clamp down on it rather than take a deep breath and listen. It really wasn't that far off 'Shut up and vote, Bigot'.

I should add that I wasn't a high ranking party member! in fact I think I'd already left by that point, but my loyalty and defensiveness still went very deep.

Also this attitude wasn't in the least uncommon in the circles I moved in. In fact I'd say it was fairly typical.

It took the Brexit result, and the realisation that some good friends and even family had voted to leave, but hadn't dared say so in front of me, to snap me out of it.

I think the Labour Party in general believe they have all the right answers and policies and that therefore they shouldn’t have to listen to the voters. All they need to do is convince them that they (Labour) are right.

As for listening to middle aged women, forget about it.

Lib Dems and Labour are as bad as each other as at women have penises and no one is talking about it

Sod that

Like gender identity for some, woke or a political party, seems like a kind of religion and the leader in a Holy war - who has no more answers than the members (yet they don't accept this) yet is viewed some kind of Guru or Gnostic with all the answers.

This is the impression Matthew Goodwin gave.

Labour - How can we Humpty dumpty words to mean whatever we like them to mean - as if we are God who can create humans and name women as they like.

It seems to me as if it's ok to scam the public because Labour know what's right for the public. The noble lie be it about biology, what is a woman or anything else is ok.

Labour forget what happened to the Tower of Bable.

I also came to the conclusion that deep down, Labour does not trust or even like its own voters very much, and that the further you go to the left, the stronger the dislike is.

I used to hang out with some Militant Tendency supporters and I remember how, in a funny kind of way, they admired Margaret Thatcher, but they totally despised Denis Healey and anyone who supported him. But even in the more mainstream party I'd say that dislike and distrust of 'their own' is still there.

Admittedly this was all quite a long time ago but I see no sign that it's changed, and definitely not when I read some posts on this board.

Ha yep

Although the concerning part is what they do when they feel votes have validated what they believe

Drakeford, high on local election results, showed the misogyny he felt free to exhibit

I agree @notanicepersonapparently

IMO Labour and many Labour/Lib Dem/Green supporters see themselves as the 'good people' and the conservative as 'the bad people'. I say this a former Labour/Lib Dem/Green voter but I've been gradually more and more repulsed by their identity politics, misogyny, anti Semitism and love of lock downs.

The general belief in the left that men can become women is the final nail because if they spout such nonsense what other bollocks are they planning to come out with? I will never vote for a party that plans to bring in Self ID.

The article in The Times doesn't surprise me one bit and as for the posters attempting to ridicule anyone who believes it you can sod off. This centre left middle aged woman will not be giving you her vote.

Agreed, first they can’t define us, then they reduce us to patronising stereotypes (again).

Weird world in which the Conservatives are showing more respect for women and women’s rights than anyone else.

I know how I’ll be voting and I won’t be spoiling my ballot this time. Labour and Lib Dem’s didn’t want women's votes before they won’t be getting mine now.

Here are a couple of a tips for anyone hoping to talk me into voting Labour again.

1. Talk to me about Labour Women's Declaration, for whom I have a lot of time.
2. Focus on tactics - I'd prefer a clear Labour majority to a centre-left agreement.

If you've got nothing beyond finger wagging and passive-aggressive 'Are you sure you're not a Tory' jibes then all you're doing is demonstrating the problem.

Floisme

I can imagine their dating does not involve much charm, just limited attempts at rough sweet nothing words for half an hour.

IMO Labour and many Labour/Lib Dem/Green supporters see themselves as the 'good people' and the conservative as 'the bad people'. I say this a former Labour/Lib Dem/Green voter but I've been gradually more and more repulsed by their identity politics, misogyny, anti Semitism and love of lock downs.

And

Also this attitude wasn't in the least uncommon in the circles I moved in. In fact I'd say it was fairly typical. It took the Brexit result, and the realisation that some good friends and even family had voted to leave, but hadn't dared say so in front of me, to snap me out of it.

I would agree with both of these (including the lockdown - it would have been so much worse if Labour were in charge, they'd have locked us down forever in the name of keeping us safe).

I was very much in the same camp as the second quote and for me too it was Brexit that made me realise that things are not as good/bad clear cut as we would like. I was horrified by the hatred and intolerance that came from those around me towards those who had dared vote the "wrong" way, from people who would have prided themselves on their kindness and inclusivity. Some of those people are now intolerant of me for having committed wrong think and saying terrible things like, "I think it might be more nuanced than that".

The more I experience of Labour and the party's history, the more I realise that, as a political organisation, they aren't much of a friend to women. They're also pretty keen on the idea that they know what's best for you, whether you agree or not. The purity of their ideology blinds them to reality.

The more I experience of Labour and the party's history, the more I realise that, as a political organisation, they aren't much of a friend to women. They're also pretty keen on the idea that they know what's best for you, whether you agree or not. The purity of their ideology blinds them to reality.

Yes, this 100% @SidewaysOtter

I must admit that I've previously been that smug Labour supporter, rolling my eyes at my MIL for voting Tory and anyone else I viewed as a political 'baddie'.

I really don't enjoy or want a political party (or anyone else for that matter) to tell me what I should be thinking and doing - or in the case of this thread what they imagine my core values are as a homogenous middle aged womanly mass 😁

I find this thread fascinating because it resonates with some of my feelings, though my perspective is quite different - many here feel labour is being too trans-inclusive, whereas I'm upset at them for not being pro-trans enough. I'm also upset at them for abandoning or watering down key progressive promises in favour of a more centrist "pander to everyone and please no-one" stance.

My present feelings align with the comments that one or two people posted above: that voting in the next election, within our flawed and procrustean two-party system, can only be a brief part in one's overall push for a fairer society. For my own part I'm voting labour as they're by far the better option on many issues, but voting for them isn't the same as me pledging myself to them: once they're in power I want to help put pressure on them to enact the important progressive reforms that they're presently dithering on (proportional representation, nationalising industries, safeguarding abortion rights, tackling transphobia etc.).

Or to put it another way: I feel that voting in a flawed centre-left party is better than an increasingly far-right one, but it's only going to be one step down a long road; and that getting to the end of that road is going to require a lot more democratic engagement than just voting every few years.

Gosh, good to hear I’m finally an important voter in a general election - I last voted for the winning MP candidate in 1987 (Jeremy Corbyn, funnily enough), being a non-Tory living in Tory safe seats ever since. Although… at very nearly 60, am I still middle-aged? Or “elderly”? How depressing!

"They believe that certain places should be made safe by restricting entry by biological sex".

Interesting that this is seen as a conservative view. Just because someone wants to change something doesn't make it 'progressive' and being opposed to change makes one a conservative. Unless perhaps one takes the literal meaning of the two words as wanting change and wanting status quo, but in that case, won't progressives run out of change at some point? When is the utopia reached where no more change is necessary? I think we are now seeing that it will never be reached, because 'progressives' are already coming up with change for change's sake that is neither good nor logically founded.

So, who the hell do gender-critical women vote for? Is there a Women's Party?

There is this coming soon apparently

https://www.theotherparty.co.uk/

There is the Women's Equality Party, but unfortunately they believe men can become women so should really rename themselves the Peoples Equality Party 😂