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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

PCOS and devastated to be called intersex

232 replies

kbana · 28/06/2023 19:11

I’m typing this through tears but just need to write it down to try and get it out of my head. Sorry if it seems long or disjointed but I’m in a bit of a state.

I hold GC views but keep these to myself as I feel afraid to speak out in case I’m called a bigot/TERF. I don’t believe that a man can become a woman but I would use people’s chosen pronouns to be polite.

I feel strongly that male-bodied people should not be able to access female spaces (including changing rooms and toilets). One of my very good friends from my university days is extremely supportive of trans rights and was ranting to me this afternoon about women’s toilets being for all women and not just females. I would normally ignore these comments to avoid arguments as she can get very heated. This time though I decided to explain (calmly and reasonably) why I didn’t agree.

My friend said that she found it astonishing that I would take that position “when many people would consider me intersex” and pointed out that I never question my own right to use the women’s loos. I asked her what she meant and she said that because I have PCOS, most TRAs and some doctors would not call me female and would include me in the intersex category. She said that I should have more sympathy for people with gender dysphoria because like them, I try to change my body to fit with my belief that I am female by taking medication to give me periods and reduce hair growth.

I tried to argue that there are thousands of women with PCOS and that they all have XX chromosomes and are female. I also pointed out that the medication is to bring back my periods, which I would have biologically if it wasn’t for my hormonal imbalance. She just kept arguing despite seeing that I was getting tearful and said that if the thousands of women with PCOS were correctly considered intersex, it would break the idea that intersex is an extremely rare group. She said that society avoids categorising PCOS as intersex to maintain the idea of two fixed sexes and encourages people with PCOS to medicate so that they fit better into the “female binary”.

I was so upset to have my sex questioned and told her so, but she just replied that is how trans people feel. Although she may have wanted to hurt me because of my GC view, she genuinely seemed to think that having PCOS means I am intersex and that my treatment for PCOS is basically to reduce my gender dysphoria so that I feel more female.

I’m not really sure what I’m asking for here but I hoped that MNers on this topic who are better informed than me can help me articulate why her view of PCOS as intersex is wrong and reassure me that I correct in believing that I am fully female (I can’t believe I even had to write that last bit). I am pretty sure that our friendship is over so I doubt I’ll have this argument with her again but it would still help me to know exactly why her thinking is wrong.

I am devastated to have lost her friendship and to have been made to feel less than female because of my health condition. I also don’t understand why she is so supportive of trans people choosing their gender and yet wants to tell me which category I’m really in. It is offensive and upsetting.

If you got to the end of this, thank you for reading. I hope I don’t sound like I’ve made this is up -frankly, I find it hard to believe too. The most upsetting part is that even though I am almost convinced she is wrong, it has still planted a seed of doubt because it plays on my insecurities about being hairier etc than most other women.

Thank you for any advice.

OP posts:
StopStartStop · 28/06/2023 20:36

She's wrong. I'm sorry you've been hurt.

PiratesEatTrolls · 28/06/2023 20:38

Jeez OP, your 'friend' is, at best, what I would describe as hard of thinking, at worst, bloody poisonous.

AutisticLegoLover · 28/06/2023 20:38

Your friend is a fecking eejit.

PonyPatter44 · 28/06/2023 20:38

Your "friend " is a raging moron, my love. My sister (very definitely female - I've known her since birth) has PCOS. She also has three kids. PCOS is NOTHING like a DSD.

SkinnyMalinkyLankyLegs · 28/06/2023 20:39

Your friend sounds bonkers. I don't think she actually knows what intersex is. No one has ever considered women with PCOS as intersex or anything other than a woman. This is just another nonsense thing that these people are spouting in a desperate attempt to get some validity to their viewpoints. Not that it brings any, when they are entirely wrong.

Thank god such a nasty and cruel person is out of your life.

Ohdofuckofdear · 28/06/2023 20:53

Your so called friend is a fucking idiot!

I have PCOS, I'm a woman, I also have 5DC and a Grandchild, I gave birth to all 5 of my DC and I breastfed them all!Please believe me when I say PCOS doesn't make you any less of a women,only women can get shitty fucking PCOS!

Honestly OP PCOS is enough to cope with you don't need a shitty friend on top of that I'd be dropping her and quick.

JimJonesLivesInMyHead · 28/06/2023 20:56

Oh OP my heart goes out to you😥
I have endometriosis and it messes with my head big time for years. I was convinced (incorrectly of course) that I was somehow less of a woman and that I should have been born male, even though I desperately wanted to be female. It was a total mind fuck.

If someone like your "friend" had said that to me at that time I think it would have broken me.

Of course you are a woman and so am I. 100%. Ok so your ovaries are not so good like my womb....but we HAVE ovaries and wombs and XX chromosome running through us like Blackpool through a stick of rock!!!

Take good care of your (womanly, female) self!

Dente · 28/06/2023 20:56

Your friend is bonkers

OhcantthInkofaname · 28/06/2023 20:56

Stop crying right now. Unless you're crying tears of joy because you just lost a blooming idiot for a friend. She's not a friend. The O in PCOS stands for ovaries. Females have ovaries.

FrontEnd · 28/06/2023 21:00

She's thick as mince...I'm sorry you were subjected to her cruel bullshit. Horrible, ignorant behaviour.

Chestnutlover · 28/06/2023 21:01

Some friend.

FlopsiesAngrySandwich · 28/06/2023 21:02

That was disgustingly cruel of her, and I'm sorry you had to hear such utter rubbish directed at you.

timenowplease · 28/06/2023 21:02

Jesus - that's the stupidest thing I've heard in a while.

Hugs to you OP xx

NutellaEllaElla · 28/06/2023 21:07

God OP I am so sorry. That is NO friend, what a crazy bitch! You're well rid of her.

Other people have said it better than me. If she didn't think you were a woman, she wouldn't have dared treat you so badly let's face it.

JazzyBBG · 28/06/2023 21:07

Wow. I'm so upset for you. I also have PCOS and can clearly remember a doctor saying to me "don't worry it doesn't mean you'll turn into a man!" (When explaining about the testosterone).

Your friend is not a friend. She's batshit and to be honest pretty evil. But what the fuck is in it for her? Why would a woman who presumably also identifies as a woman take this as a hill to die on? What does it have to do with her and why does she want to do such a disservice to herself? The critical thinking has well and truly left the building.

Don't give her the time of day.

DSDaisy · 28/06/2023 21:07

This reply has been withdrawn

Withdrawn at poster's request

Woman2023 · 28/06/2023 21:08

senua · 28/06/2023 19:15

Your friend is batshit.
PCOS stands for Polycystic ovary syndrome (not that you need me to tell you that). OVARIES. Only the FEMALE has ovaries. You are female. You are not intersex.

Batshit is definitely the correct word. No men have PCOS, it's a condition only women suffer.

JanesBlond · 28/06/2023 21:08

Haven’t RTFT but echo the chorus that your friend is nuts and knows nothing about sex, PCOS, or how to be a decent human being. PCOS is now thought to be related to diabetes with insulin resistance in the ovaries causing the hormonal imbalance (which by the way is often high oestrogen, testosterone isn’t always implicated) for many patients. Women with PCOS have fully developed female organs, it’s nothing like a DSD.

DSDaisy · 28/06/2023 21:09

This reply has been withdrawn

Withdrawn at poster's request

namitynamechange · 28/06/2023 21:11

False equivalency Like when gay people object to hardcore kink in front of children at pride and get told "well lots of people think you're 'lifestyle' is a fetish and wrong so you should be on our side" .
It says far more about the person making that arguement than you.

namitynamechange · 28/06/2023 21:12

And I know it's your not you're. I've let everyone down.😞

itsmylife7 · 28/06/2023 21:12

Your friend is a fucking idiot and I'm really sorry she made you feel bad about yourself.

NutellaEllaElla · 28/06/2023 21:13

namitynamechange · 28/06/2023 21:12

And I know it's your not you're. I've let everyone down.😞

Not as much as OPs friend has let herself and her side down....but close, we have high standards for grammar after all Grin

Vintagecreamandcottagepie · 28/06/2023 21:14

People's brains are falling out their arses. That's the only conclusion I can come to.

Sorry this was said to you.

DarkDayforMN · 28/06/2023 21:15

Your friend was being cruel on purpose. She knew what she was saying was awful and hurtful towards you. Dedicated genderist devotees believe being cruel and awful to “TERFs” is permissible and virtuous.

And she must have drunk an awful lot of the koolaid if she’s saying stuff like “PCOS is an intersex condition” - that’s advanced genderology that only people who’ve had a lot of practice believing six impossible things before breakfast can say with a straight face.

So your friend is terminally online as well as a horrible person, I think you’ve only seen the tip of the iceberg of her insanity. Good riddance.

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