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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Four found dead in property

379 replies

WhiteFire · 18/06/2023 16:27

The police are not looking for anyone else, we know how this generally unfolds.

RIP Dawid, Maja and Monika. Sorry society has failed yet another family, I can't see an end to this.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-65937795

Dawid Wlodarczyk, 3, Monika Wlodarczyk, 35, Maja Wlodarczyk, 11, and Michal Wlodarczyk, 39

Four people found dead in Hounslow flat named

The bodies in the west London property include those of an 11-year-old girl and a three-year-old boy.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-65937795

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
knittingaddict · 19/06/2023 14:33

BubziOwl · 19/06/2023 13:56

Genuine question (because I don't know the answer) for anyone who is annoyed at people discussing male mental health... why is this happening then?

I suppose I just feel like it cannot be natural for a man to kill his wife and child. The fact that men are doing this is surely a sign that something is going wrong somewhere. So if it's not mental health, what is it then?

I say this as someone who has suffered greatly at the hands of a violent man. Whilst I feel no sympathy and, to be honest, nothing but hate for him, I have always thought to myself that if his mental health was better cared for, then I wouldn't have had to go through what I did. I just feel like no mentally well person could have done what he did. So to think that it's not to do with mental health at all kind of wobbles my whole view of life and nature, I guess. Hm.

In the case I know about I would say it started in his childhhood.

He had a controlling inadequate father and a very passive mother (not placing the blame on her at all, but it didn't help either). He learnt some awful manipulative behaviours when young and never grew out of them. He was like a child in many ways and his parents relationship meant that he hated women. He oozed misogyny from every pore with a shallow charm to help disguise it.

Tiddlypomtiddlypom · 19/06/2023 14:59

In my experience, abusive and controlling men have been of dangerously sound mind. They’ve known exactly what they’re doing and to what end.

The reporters writing these stories have written so from a hugely sympathetic leaning towards the mother and children. This suggests to me someone from the police has given them a steer that they cannot officially report yet. Therefore, if he isn’t found to be the perpetrator, I will be utterly gobsmacked.

But even without that, I find the male apologists and male violence deniers on these threads utterly repulsive.

OhBling · 19/06/2023 15:01

Anyone else disturbed about how the story has barely been covered after the initial news? This family don't seem to be as important as the big, important white, English woman who was the head teacher at a posh private school.

Not in any way downplaying what happened to Emma, but I wish that every single one of these stories got that kind of coverage so we can stop seeing it as unusual or extenuating circumstances and start looking for signs much earlier.

I have a relatively new friend. Her husband seems lovely. I genuinely like him. But fro my years on MN and the reading I've done, I'm seeing a few red flags that I simply wouldn't have seen before. I might be wrong, and I'm certainly not saying anything at this point, but I'm so glad I can spot these now and at least am taking a second look.

WilmaFlintstone1 · 19/06/2023 15:52

Woman found dead in flat with three others was murdered. No shit! No surprise there then.

WhiteFire · 19/06/2023 16:02

Such sad but unexpected news. It's been well pushed out by news of a party.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-65949353

OP posts:
Theunamedcat · 19/06/2023 16:15

😔

HoldOnMiGenna · 19/06/2023 16:17

RIP to this woman and her two children.
I knew what was up as soon as I found out that two of the "four people found dead" were two children and an adult woman and man.
Seeing the photo of the family , I saw 'pisshead to my right who could be photobombing to how disconnected he is from the others".
I also saw the overcompensating rictus grin from the mother.
I hardly have any useful relationship with any of my blood family. My father abused my mother, then turned on my full sibling and I. I had a difficult relationship with my mother, mainly because I always wondered why she entertained us maintaining a relationship with my father who hadn't stopped by being a shithouse since she rightly left him.
I was a very clever, curious and angry girl/teenager/ woman. Before I knew the words " misogyny/ male identified/ patriarchy", I knew these things existed. I have spent my life avoiding abusive men and male identified women with and without success.
Unfortunately, being Black, avoiding cultural misogyny much less misogyny outside of the culture can be isolating. Worse if one is a Black woman refusing to excuse scummy, infringing behaviour by Black males as something beyond their agency.....especially since the understanding is completely a one way dynamic with even liberal woman of other races bandwagonning that dynamic, this underscoring their latent internalised misogyny/ misogynoir and racism of no, much less low expectations of Black men whilst having everything to say about White men with financial privilege, near to fuck all pro or con about White men with no financial privilege.

So it is no wonder that even in the first world Anglo west, cultural misogyny and the refusal to counteract it and it even being supported as progressive if committed by Black and POC males ( rap and all its derivatives ) and envy/ Trans males.
Dealing with domestic violence doesn't give those who have the power to do so.....it doesn't give them enough clout in these days of too many politicians ,etc seeking online validation from people, who quite frankly have never been taught the truth that "no; your fucking opinion is of no bloodclaat importance everywhere. Who is you?".
And I say the exact same thing to those in this thread who need to fuck off and perform some prayer, begging Mother Nature as to the not why she beat them with the duncebat stick when they were travelling out the birth canal.

In the year 2023, there shouldn't be so many stupid women willing to brandish their stupidity all in one place to excuse a dead murdering man. I'm just surprised that we haven't had a glitch in the Matrix, what with so many of us being exposed to such concentrated stupidity that insists on travelling to this corner of Mumsnet periodically. So dry eyed they are, with no shame in their game. And they've reproduced?

I will go to my grave saying that these type of women, women who defend nonces that they know, nonces that they don't know, transactivists, etc....they are all on the "hate women and children" spectrum .

They sick my stomach.
This post can never be worse than any defending male family annihilators, simply because they are male .
It takes a lot of woman and child hatred to be a person chastising women for guessing the malignant disposition of a man who killed his family and on a feminist board, too.
You cape wearers for malignant males need telling .

LoobiJee · 19/06/2023 16:22

WhiteFire · 19/06/2023 16:02

Such sad but unexpected news. It's been well pushed out by news of a party.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-65949353

What we all knew would be the case.

“Police are treating the death of a woman found dead alongside a man and two children at a flat in west London as murder.
Monika Wlodarczyk, 35, is believed to have died from multiple sharp-force wounds to the neck, the Metropolitan Police have said.
She was found dead on Friday alongside Michal Wlodarczyk, 39, Maja Wlodarczyk, 11 and Dawid Wlodarczyk, aged three
Mr Wlodarczyk's death is not being treated as a homicide, police said.
A post mortem into the childrens' deaths will take place on Wednesday.”

DollyTrolly · 19/06/2023 16:25

And there we have it....just as we all suspected.
Just another man who thinks he has the right to kill women and children.

StephanieSuperpowers · 19/06/2023 16:25

@HoldOnMiGenna , hear hear.

PatatiPatatras · 19/06/2023 16:31

Anyone still wondering why a bunch of Internet women aren't consistently wrong in their predictions of male pattern violence? Could be something to do with actual lived experience whilst female.
but I'm sure someone will come on again soon to remind us of the 10% of family murders commited by women. Yada yada yada.
Let's just have the huge sigh of "not again" and go back to pretending everyone is the same everywhere statistically and any notion of grouping is sexist - whilst we continue to make actual sexist assumptions about what men and women should do and wear.

NotHavingIt · 19/06/2023 16:31

OhBling · 19/06/2023 15:01

Anyone else disturbed about how the story has barely been covered after the initial news? This family don't seem to be as important as the big, important white, English woman who was the head teacher at a posh private school.

Not in any way downplaying what happened to Emma, but I wish that every single one of these stories got that kind of coverage so we can stop seeing it as unusual or extenuating circumstances and start looking for signs much earlier.

I have a relatively new friend. Her husband seems lovely. I genuinely like him. But fro my years on MN and the reading I've done, I'm seeing a few red flags that I simply wouldn't have seen before. I might be wrong, and I'm certainly not saying anything at this point, but I'm so glad I can spot these now and at least am taking a second look.

Unfortunately this type of event is not infrequent. These family massacres rarely make the national news.

Boomboom22 · 19/06/2023 16:34

Some major comprehension issues from people like @jannier here.
Saying most murderers are men and almost all family annihilation is by men is not the same at all as saying all men will murder.

Also on the 47 women so far, yes and of course killed by men.
But remember men also kill other men, quite possibly more than 47 men have been killed this year I'd have to look it up.

Noone is saying its all men. But when someone murders it is most likely to be a man. I think victims are also more likely to be male too, men kill people.
Women only kill their own children usually or sometimes their partner. But not at the rate that men kill their partner, 2 women a week are killed by their partner or ex. There are def not 2 female killers every week.

ArabeIIaScott · 19/06/2023 16:35

WhiteFire · 19/06/2023 16:02

Such sad but unexpected news. It's been well pushed out by news of a party.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-65949353

RIP Dawid, Monika, and Maja. Such an unnecessary loss of three lives.

PSNonsense · 19/06/2023 16:44

@HoldOnMiGenna 👏👏

SideWonder · 19/06/2023 16:45

Thanks for your post (and your rage ) @HoldOnMiGenna

I share your despair about women who cling onto abusive men because they can't imagine a better life, or a life without being dependent on a man.

I'm less inclined to blame them as I think they don't always have the freedom from poverty, fear, or hunger, to take into their hands the freedom to live without such men.

I saw my mother in fear of being left with no money & a brood of children, when it was clear my father was not faithful (he wasn't physically abusive, just established a family for about 15 years, and then wanted to be free of us). But that was back in the 1970s.

It should be different now.

But there's something deeply wrong still with the way we're bringing up girls, so that a fair proportion of them still see no future life except through a man. You only have to read MN on any random day of the week.

Clymene · 19/06/2023 17:01

RIP Monika, Maja and Dawid. I hope Mical rots in hell and is not buried with woman and children he brutally murdered

Clymene · 19/06/2023 17:05

Can I just point out on the 'why don't they just leave' front, many women stay with abusive men because they feel that is the best way of protecting their children from their fathers. We know that women are more at risk of murder once they plan to leave than they are before.

Until there is better protection for women and children fleeing violence, this is going to continue happening.

SideWonder · 19/06/2023 17:11

There are many many reasons women don't lave. THat is the tragedy of it.

OhBling · 19/06/2023 17:16

SideWonder · 19/06/2023 17:11

There are many many reasons women don't lave. THat is the tragedy of it.

Yes, completely agree.

An important one is that many women are taught that when men treat them badly, "they can't help it" or that they are contributing to the problem. Or that it's not as bad as they think it is and that's before you even get to the many many women who know it's not okay but don't feel they can leave for a million reasons.

Sarah2891 · 19/06/2023 17:18

I wouldn't be surprised if she was trying to leave and that's why he killed them all. Bastard.

ArabeIIaScott · 19/06/2023 17:20

SideWonder · 19/06/2023 16:45

Thanks for your post (and your rage ) @HoldOnMiGenna

I share your despair about women who cling onto abusive men because they can't imagine a better life, or a life without being dependent on a man.

I'm less inclined to blame them as I think they don't always have the freedom from poverty, fear, or hunger, to take into their hands the freedom to live without such men.

I saw my mother in fear of being left with no money & a brood of children, when it was clear my father was not faithful (he wasn't physically abusive, just established a family for about 15 years, and then wanted to be free of us). But that was back in the 1970s.

It should be different now.

But there's something deeply wrong still with the way we're bringing up girls, so that a fair proportion of them still see no future life except through a man. You only have to read MN on any random day of the week.

An abusive relationship isn't something a woman chooses. She is gaslit, destabilised, love-bombed, confused, woo-ed, romanced, charmed and pushed into it, and in many cases will not realise it's abusive for a very, very long time - if, sadly, at all.

The dynamics of coercive, controlling relationships are very badly understood, ime.

Clymene · 19/06/2023 17:21

And yes, there are many many threads on here where women are living in very dangerous situations and MN (and me specifically) routinely get ripped to shreds for taking a LTB stance. But I don't care.

I'd rather a hundred women left when it wasn't that bad than a single one ended her life like Monika's.

Farmageddon · 19/06/2023 17:26

Sarah2891 · 19/06/2023 17:18

I wouldn't be surprised if she was trying to leave and that's why he killed them all. Bastard.

I agree, there is usually a catalyst for these events, linked to the man perceiving that he is somehow losing control.

As for the people on here feeling sorry for him, FFS have a word with yourself. And no, most of them don't just snap, often times they plan the murders in advance.

There was a case in Ireland a few years ago of a vice principal who killed his wife and three children, before killing himself. He had planned it, even moving around furniture in the living room a few weeks before, in order to be able to attack his wife from behind without her seeing him coming. After he murdered them, he moved money from their joint account into his personal account, and left a note for his family giving instructions on what to do. The man was controlling to the very end.

The worst part was, when it was initially reported on, he was described in the press as an upstanding family man, a pillar of the community ...
Incidentally, the catalyst for him was believed to be an investigation going on into dodgy stuff found on his work laptop, so basically his 'upstanding family man' image was going to fall apart.

AmbleInAnnBoleyn · 19/06/2023 17:30

We knew this would be the case. Rest in peace Monika, Maja and Dawid.