Four found dead in property

[WhiteFire]

The police are not looking for anyone else, we know how this generally unfolds.

RIP Dawid, Maja and Monika. Sorry society has failed yet another family, I can't see an end to this.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-65937795

@DollyTrolly I'm so sorry that happened to your mum. I don't think some people realise how much abuse can go on in what seems for all intense and purposes a perfectly happy family set up.

Thank you @WhiteFire

I by no means want to make this about me but I do get angry when I see people making excuses for male violence. It's hurtful to those who have been through it and it's disrespectful to those who are struggling with their mental health.

I'm so sorry @DollyTrolly.

Thank you.
Absolutely...controlling and coercive behaviour is insidious and those that are in that type of relationship don't always realise it's happening. I don't think my mum would have described her relationship as abusive but it absolutely was.

This is a side issue, but the myth about people with mental illnesses being dangerous cannot be left unchallenged. I note that the poster who opined that depressed people are 3x more likely to commit violent offences has not given any references for that outrageous lie!

Thank you

Yes. I'm not sure if it's that it's a difficult thing to understand, the abusive dynamic, or if its just not talked about enough.

We can do our best to try and change this, I guess.

There's actually a few articles that state that statistic

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-31616242

They are of sound mind though. Please actually read some of the research into the mentality of the men who do these things before making statements like this.

When I heard this story deep down I knew it would be what it always is, a man destroying the lives of his partner and kids, even though I prayed it wouldn’t be.

RIP to the 3 innocent lives lost

No British studies then? Plus this quote

When the researchers took into account previous histories of violence, self-harm, psychosis, and substance misuse, they still found a link between depression and violent crime - although the risk was found to be smaller. I also note that there was no indication of whether the diagnosis was pre or post the offence.

As a society, we're a long way from seeing women as anything other than bit players in the huge story of the life of the man they're involved with. Look at all these posters speculating that the poor man probably had a mental breakdown and suddenly, without warning, methodically killed all of his family and then himself. How terrible for him.

In Spain they advise men who are considering murder suicide to reverse the order.

I lived with a murderer for part of my childhood. He managed to persuade the right people he only killed a woman because he was mentally ill. Knowing what I know about him I don't for one second think his mental health issues led him to do it. He was a selfish man who put his needs and wants above anything and anyone else.

He murdered a woman because he could. Because it suited him to do that. Not because he had mental health issues.

Yes. I'm not sure if it's that it's a difficult thing to understand, the abusive dynamic, or if its just not talked about enough.

We can do our best to try and change this, I guess.

There's no easy answer that's for sure. These men can be very skilled manipulators too. I remember meeting a man who, as part of his chat up lines would openly admit that he had been in prison for domestic violence but would spin in a way that made him out to be the victim and how he just needed the right woman to help change him. To me he was a walking, talking red flag but lots of women and men fell for his act but he came across as very charming. I was often told by men and women that i was heartless for not giving him a second chance.....in the end her reverted back to type and i'm sure it's only a matter of time before he kills someone.

* disclaimer. I'm not saying ALL men are manipulative and I know women can be too but i'm referring specifically to the issue of male violent against women.

Some school friends had a sleepover a couple of weeks prior to this awful event. You never know what is going on behind closed doors. I do not allow my kids to go to sleepovers- too risky.

Until we as a society take male --mental health- violence seriously this will keep happening. There....fixed it for the "he must have been mentally ill" crowd.

Certainly psychopaths and narcissists are known for being charming and manipulative.

Apologies if this sounds like a tangent, but I liked the film 'Frozen' for showing the 'love bombing' relationship as one that turns out to be dangerous and abusive. A good counter to the myths about 'love at first sight' and 'passionate, reckless, romance' as the standard we should be aiming for. Plus, providing a happy ending that didn't include a romantic wedding also helped counter the idea that women should sacrifice everything for their romantic relationship.

Carbon monoxide poisoning? In the middle of summer? Bizarre first thought.

Anything to avoid naming murderous male violence.

Apologies if this sounds like a tangent, but I liked the film 'Frozen' for showing the 'love bombing' relationship as one that turns out to be dangerous and abusive. A good counter to the myths about 'love at first sight' and 'passionate, reckless, romance' as the standard we should be aiming for. Plus, providing a happy ending that didn't include a romantic wedding also helped counter the idea that women should sacrifice everything for their romantic relationship.

I completely agree! Me and DH have said the exact same thing......DS was little when it came out so we watched it a lot!!

But all the articles mention that the child was 'always smiling' and the mum was seen 'happily playing' with the kids two days before the event. Doesn't sound like a family living in fear.

As @DollyTrolly has pointed out, this is meaningless and shows a real lack of understanding of the reality of domestic violence and coercive control. If ongoing domestic violence and coercive control wasn't so well hidden most of the time, we'd be less shocked when women turn up with bruises, flee to shelters or land up dead.

@DollyTrolly I am sorry for everything you've been through.

Genuine question (because I don't know the answer) for anyone who is annoyed at people discussing male mental health... why is this happening then?

I suppose I just feel like it cannot be natural for a man to kill his wife and child. The fact that men are doing this is surely a sign that something is going wrong somewhere. So if it's not mental health, what is it then?

I say this as someone who has suffered greatly at the hands of a violent man. Whilst I feel no sympathy and, to be honest, nothing but hate for him, I have always thought to myself that if his mental health was better cared for, then I wouldn't have had to go through what I did. I just feel like no mentally well person could have done what he did. So to think that it's not to do with mental health at all kind of wobbles my whole view of life and nature, I guess. Hm.

There's a wealth of research on this topic. Most family annihilators don't have any diagnosable mental health condition. What they do have is beliefs in their rights and role as men, a feeling that their female and child subservient class possessions aren't performing adequately for whatever reason and a frustrated sense of entitlement.

Male entitlement.

It's about control.
It's about how some men view women and their role in society.

The men who I have known who are abusive don't see women as their equals. They don't respect women..... oh they might 'worship' women and shower them with affection and attention but that's just love bombing and not true love and respect.

Their whole world is about them and their needs and women are just accessories and there to service them.

Yes to all of this.

To add to the discussion. I am sure that my daughter's abuser wasn't mentally ill or depressed. I think it's highly likely that he has a personality disorder and not too much you can do about that.