Post Westminster Hall Debate - what are the next steps to ensure the sex based rights of biological women

[IwantToRetire]

The other thread is now full https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4800027-debate-relating-to-the-definition-of-sex-in-the-equality-act-2010-will-be-in-westminster-hall-on-12-june-2023-430pm

And what it will achieve we will have to wait and see.

But is clarifying the EA the most important campaign to ensure women's sex based rights.

Or ...

Some very clever person has made it into a techno track -

twitter.com/LilyLilyMaynard/status/1668440702441627648

The outcome in that debate format is the statement at the end from the minister in charge, the opportunity to hear high up government thinking on the issue of debate.

And unfortunately we heard from Maria Caulfield that they want more time to think without making any commitments to action, which we can be trusting in or cynical of. But there is an imminent closing window for any action before a GE next year and with various other crises for government to deal with.

I think the chances of the clarification happening are virtually none with this current government, so we just need to keep going. We need to keep campaigning, grab public attention, to get electoral candidates to commit to action and to get parties to make manifesto commitments to actually act on this issue. In some ways having a government on the way out gives an opportunity to put more pressure on all of the parties.

My understanding is that the debate provides an opportunity for backbenchers to air their views and to provide input into any legislation the Government might be considering. It also provides material for press reporting.

The earlier debate several years ago, and perhaps initiated by David TC Davies, enabled the great Layla Moran quote about being able to see into people's souls to be included into a Spectator article.

This time we got a shift in the Labour position, more Labour women speaking out in favour of single sex spaces, though I am still not convinced that when they say sex they mean single sex, and some Tory backbench men making clear and supportive statements. So pressure on Keir and Rishi both.

I still can get over the "most persecuted people ever" trope that was trotted out several times. What about the abused and used woman who finds herself in a prison cell or a refuge.

At the business end of the debate, ie the end, I think we got acknowledgement from the Conservative minister of the point raised by Anneliese Dodds, namely a warning from EHRC that the changes required are not simple, and care needs to be taken to ensure that alterations to definitions do not have unintended consequences. Which means there is unlikely to be a quick resolution. But good legislation is rarely written quickly.

I do understand the point about 'unintended consequences'. Look at the bloody GRA. It was supposed to allow equal marriage. Its unintended consequences have been extremely harmful.

Also, I doubt the government right now trusts its own civil service lawyers to give the cast-iron impartial advice it requires on this. I wouldn't.

I will always be gender critical. But those despicable Tories will NEVER get my vote.

I will never vote Tory either. But many who are less tribally left than you and I will.

I don’t see what is progressive about driving left wing voters into the arms of the Tories.

Waitwhat23 an epic track for an epic performance!!!

Where did Layla Moran go. She was angrily interrupting before the first division and then seemed to disappear?

My conclusion this morning is that the Tories are not going to have sorted this by the time of the GE, Labour will stroll to power. Indeed Sunak doesn't want to sort it, his energies and bandwidth will be fully taken up with his five pledges, righting the economy, battling Boris sabotage.

And then the fun and games will start when Labour stroll into govt next year.

Women had better get organised to fight the new government every inch of the way as Starmer bends and twists towards disappearing your rights, one by one.

It's quite something for this long term Tory voter and proudly GC citizen to see quite how badly this area of policy has been neglected by "my side".

Even Kemi Badenoch who I really felt was saying all the right things has gone off the boil, blaming everyone except herself and her team for a situation where Labour will inherit a badly unresolved area of policy that they can refine the way they want.

Their large majority will be primarily formed of gender >>> biological sex MPs, plus almost every LD, SNP will be TRA.

The GC MPs in the Tory party will be a mere rump after 2024.

I find it worrying that someone who was admitted to a degree in medicine doesn't know that women have XX chromosomes. Kirsty's not doing her alma mater any favours.

Bwhahaha!

Why wasn't Kemi Badenoch there, actually? Is it backbenchers only?

What was the point of it all?

For backbenchers to signal their concerns to their party front bench?

If so, what Starmer heard was that Jess Phillips moderate GC voice is a minority.

What Sunak heard is that his party is broadly GC and he has decisions he really needs to come to.

What Useless Youssaf heard is that other than Jo Cherry, his party is a haven for stupid, and superstitions so primitive that would make witches in the Middle Ages blush.

Oh this is starting to roll 😬

Haha made me laugh

Didn’t see this thread, glad the conversation is still going

Labour speakers were mostly gender ideology, bar two

Conservative were for change and spoke more on biological reality

The debate has been useful to see the party positions more clearly

On a wider level many countries are coming up against this and I’m not sure the biology and sex matters arguments, which were very clear and good, are being replicated

I have some hope we can stand out, it won’t be easy though against international pressures

Labour / SNP are more gender ideology, not sure if any Lib Dems turned up

Compare and contrast to the last debate organised by David TC Davies. He was just about the only MP who spoke out, many more spoke out for the TRA cause. This time the majority came from the GC side, with clear evidenced arguments. The TRAs were fewer and they either appealed to emotion or used fake suicide stats.
We are getting there but the pace is glacial.

Too little. Too late. Genuinely fear the future now.

That's actually a really good point about the civil service lawyers who'd be drafting and advising on the legislation.

It explains why NHS staff are asking old men of they are pregnant. They have no respect for their patients or their long term reputation. They are just poor memory recall chanting graduates, who follow charts and tick boxes with few morals or thoughts, robots until AI can replace them.

I particularly liked the guy with the great accent, who likened men in women's spaces to trip hazards. H&S inspections look out for trip hazards, not because everyone is going to trip, but because sooner or later someone will. Trip hazards are removed.

If red wall Tories get it, I assume red wall labour will.

Yes, he was very thoughtful of the bigger picture and had empathy.

It's being tribal that has helped this craziness take hold. Rather than backing ourselves down a Progressive blind alley that leads to legalised self ID and all the horrors that will bring, perhaps we should listen to what they all say, decide who we can trust the most and then organise ourselves to get them in a position where they WILL deliver what is required.

Being a life-long Labour voter has not made me deaf or stupid. What I heard yesterday was a lot of tory MPs listening to what we have to say and speaking our truth and standing for us in public. And a lot of Labour folk talking absolute shite they actually don't believe because....who the fuck knows

I don't give a flying fuck if they went to Eton, voted for brexit, and have a shepherd's hut; if they care about women's rights and Labour don't then I'll hand deliver the fucking "vote tory" leaflets myself.

P. S. so sorry about the bad words, I'm off to do the thing with soap my gran and mum always threatened.

@FedgeHund

Look at this guy. https://twitter.com/theotjj_jordan/status/1666936210076446722?s=61&t=gd6tu0Iz6JpyKXGLWMLGjg
No cogent arguments, just repeating the same tired old mantras.

They all look so stupid