Page 4 | Update from CF

DerekFaker · 2023-06-07T07:28:43+00:00

This sounds horrendous. How can the police do this. And yes, it was exactly as we predicted in the previous thread. Should a certain police officer pop up in this thread, please try not to get drawn into protracted, repetitive arguments with him. Please! [[https://twitter.com/CF_Farrow/status/1666337645427847169?s=19&t=LWaRDewlk7r_8pVTdkE_tw https://twitter.com/CF_Farrow/status/1666337645427847169?t=LWaRDewlk7r_8pVTdkE_tw&s=19]]

CliantheLang · 07/06/2023 10:51

Waiting,... for PCC Lisa Townsend to tweet how we don't have the whole story and this is all perfectly normal.

Felix125 · 07/06/2023 10:51

GCalltheway
I think we are supposed to avoid using the word ‘victims’ until there has been a conviction.

That's is why I am referring to them as victims/reporting people

And yes - i agree, there needs to be significant sufficient grounds to impose any order. This will be up to the court to hear these and make a decision.

GCalltheway · 07/06/2023 10:53

Felix125 · 07/06/2023 10:42

GCalltheway
Trying to slap orders on innocent individuals is not going to increase public confidence in the police is it?

Seems to work with DVPO's and similar orders.
And it came off the back of a 'lessons learned' scenario to protect victims/reporting people

You and I both know fully well that this is an abuse of an order, genuine concern for a committal of further offences seems like a big stretch to me, given the police have yet to establish even one offence so far unless you can prove otherwise - it will not be granted.

ShimmeringShirts · 07/06/2023 10:55

@GCalltheway can anyone submit a formal complaint or does it need to come from CF/her legal team? Or perhaps an en-mass complaint from the general public would help?

GCalltheway · 07/06/2023 10:55

Felix125 · 07/06/2023 10:51

GCalltheway
I think we are supposed to avoid using the word ‘victims’ until there has been a conviction.

That's is why I am referring to them as victims/reporting people

And yes - i agree, there needs to be significant sufficient grounds to impose any order. This will be up to the court to hear these and make a decision.

Please refrain from using the word victims altogether. It is very misleading.

Currently, there are no ‘victims’ just hearsay as far as I can conclude.

GCalltheway · 07/06/2023 10:56

ShimmeringShirts · 07/06/2023 10:55

@GCalltheway can anyone submit a formal complaint or does it need to come from CF/her legal team? Or perhaps an en-mass complaint from the general public would help?

Yes, anyone can submit a formal complaint. I hope Caroline will be logging her own in due course, for what appears to be harassment.

Felix125 · 07/06/2023 10:57

SinnerBoy · 07/06/2023 10:48

Felix125 · Today 10:40

- -Please clarify which offences she's been convicted of, in this series. - -

I have said she hasn't been charged with anything.

No, I didn't say that - you said it was to prevent her from committing further offences:

If the court believes that there is a genuine probability that further offences will occur to the detriment of the reporting person.

So what ever the offence which is under investigation here - the one which Caroline was arrested for (and we don't yet know what that is)

So the court can look at what ever is presented to them - and if they believe there is a genuine possibility that further offences (what ever they may be) could occur against the victim/reporting person - they can impose the order.

They may look at it and decided not to grant it, because there is no risk of further offences

We just don't know yet.

Disclaimer - I am using 'we' to mean me and most others on here. I acknowledge that some on here will know or have been told the details of the complaint and I am aware that Caroline may have access to this thread or indeed people close to her. I also acknowledge that the reporting person, OIC and direct witnesses may also read the thread and hence will not be included in the term 'we'.

GCalltheway · 07/06/2023 10:58

Felix125 · 07/06/2023 10:57

So what ever the offence which is under investigation here - the one which Caroline was arrested for (and we don't yet know what that is)

So the court can look at what ever is presented to them - and if they believe there is a genuine possibility that further offences (what ever they may be) could occur against the victim/reporting person - they can impose the order.

They may look at it and decided not to grant it, because there is no risk of further offences

We just don't know yet.

Disclaimer - I am using 'we' to mean me and most others on here. I acknowledge that some on here will know or have been told the details of the complaint and I am aware that Caroline may have access to this thread or indeed people close to her. I also acknowledge that the reporting person, OIC and direct witnesses may also read the thread and hence will not be included in the term 'we'.

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For the second time, please can I remind you not to use the word victim.

Felix125 · 07/06/2023 11:00

GCalltheway

Its not an abuse of the order as we don't know what the allegation is that was made by the reporting person.

We don't know what the evidence is for and against

We don't know what Caroline was arrested for

The 'test' of the order is through the court process. If the judge/magistrate believes it is an abuse, they will say so.

Felix125 · 07/06/2023 11:02

GCalltheway
For the second time, please can I remind you not to use the word victim.

Apologies - you second post was uploaded as i was still typing.

PurpleBugz · 07/06/2023 11:06

People stop engaging with felix. He always details these threads

Dumbo12 · 07/06/2023 11:07

This is the absolute epitome of the process being used as punishment. It is horrendous that this type of hearing, designed for the protection of the vulnerable, is being misused in this way.

Felix125 · 07/06/2023 11:07

How do we know the reporting person isn't vulnerable?

GCalltheway · 07/06/2023 11:08

Felix125 · 07/06/2023 11:00

GCalltheway

Its not an abuse of the order as we don't know what the allegation is that was made by the reporting person.

We don't know what the evidence is for and against

We don't know what Caroline was arrested for

The 'test' of the order is through the court process. If the judge/magistrate believes it is an abuse, they will say so.

An alleged offence is just that, alleged, until it is proven in a court of law.

The onus will be on the police to provide sound reasons for requesting any order, they are not given or granted lightly by any court. If it comes to light that the order is being used (abused?) to muzzle a member of the public that I am sure you will agree will not sit well with the Judiciary or the public.

I don’t know what Caroline has been accused of, I assume neither do you, but one has to hope there is justification for this, or we could quickly see the tables turning on this case.

The persecution of members of the public will not be tolerated in this country.

Felix125 · 07/06/2023 11:11

PurpleBugz · 07/06/2023 11:06

People stop engaging with felix. He always details these threads

As do other people

But yes - ban my freedom of speech.

BaronessEllarawrosaurus · 07/06/2023 11:11

PurpleBugz · 07/06/2023 11:06

People stop engaging with felix. He always details these threads

Believe me I'm trying. Could really do with a block poster button.

I live in the vicinity of another notorious force where these issues are concerned and anonymously online here is the only place I feel safe to speak up, I wouldn't even express my views in my own home due to fear of reprisals. I can't imagine the hell Caroline must be going through

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 07/06/2023 11:12

Felix125 · 07/06/2023 11:11

As do other people

But yes - ban my freedom of speech.

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My irony meter just exploded.

GCalltheway · 07/06/2023 11:13

What can we do to support her?

Felix125 · 07/06/2023 11:15

GCalltheway

I agree - the alleged offence is still being investigated and a case file will need to be submitted once the enquiry is completed for any criminal case.

And of course, the police will need to provide sound reasons to impose this order. That's why its not just imposed by the police, it needs to be heard in court and the judge/magistrate decides after hearing arguments from both sides.

There has to be justification for it and her defence can challenge it.

GCalltheway · 07/06/2023 11:16

Felix125 · 07/06/2023 11:15

GCalltheway

I agree - the alleged offence is still being investigated and a case file will need to be submitted once the enquiry is completed for any criminal case.

And of course, the police will need to provide sound reasons to impose this order. That's why its not just imposed by the police, it needs to be heard in court and the judge/magistrate decides after hearing arguments from both sides.

There has to be justification for it and her defence can challenge it.

It will be very interesting to see whether Surrey Police are seriously going to put their entire credibility and integrity on the line to support this?

stealtheatingtunnocks · 07/06/2023 11:17

The effect if this is that I will now not trust the police for anything in any circumstances.

I am a woman, middle aged and I know what a dog is even though I’m not a vet.

my impression is that the police don’t help people like me.

IncompleteSenten · 07/06/2023 11:17

IWilloBeACervix · 07/06/2023 09:22

It’s truly shocking that the police are allowing themselves to be used in this way.

When enough people in a profession hate women to tip the profession itself into a state of institutional misogyny, being able to harass, bully and criminalise women and claim you're the good guys is bliss.

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 07/06/2023 11:18

Are there likely to be reporters at a hearing like this?

Something is really, really rotten in Surrey police. And I thought the Met were bad.

Felix125 · 07/06/2023 11:19

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 07/06/2023 11:12

My irony meter just exploded.

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Mine exploded some time ago

So its OK for you to have your opinion on here and for various people to post things. You can have your freedom of speech. And on the other thread I had to put up with being called 'pig' on a number of posts as well as various other things

But yet I am not allowed to make any comment at all?

AlisonDonut · 07/06/2023 11:19

Just to save Felix's fingers:

We don't know what the accuser said x 7953

We don't know if the accuser is vulnerable x 84

The process is ongoing x 1000

CF will definitely be able to see all the evidence and the police would never do anything bad x 125

If the police do anything wrong them you can just simply pop a complaint in x 93

Yes I know I said the police are never wrong but there is already a process to complain because the police are often wrong/bad/rapists/murderers but I never see that x 84

If you pop a complaint in, then the police who are already harassing you would never ever up their harassment to make it worse, I've never seen that x 638

I never ever spend my life on Mumsnet telling women they are wrong and I never see women being treated badly and I am very attuned to what women want x 776

You women who see and experience things are just seeing and experiencing it wrong x 938