Fears Rishi Sunak will renege on promise to clarify definition of biological sex

[IwantToRetire]

Rishi Sunak is facing calls to make a public “cast iron guarantee” to follow through on a pledge to rewrite equality law to protect women, amid Tory MPs’ fears that he will renege on his promise.

Conservative backbenchers are planning to challenge Maria Caulfield, the minister for women, to give an undertaking in the Commons that Mr Sunak will deliver on his promised legal changes to ensure that “mothers and women are not erased from public life”.

Sources close to the Prime Minister insist he remains committed to the pledge, with one saying that the Government is carefully considering advice from the Equality and Human Rights Commission on the matter and another saying, “It’s certainly not being delayed or dropped”.

But senior Tories fear that the party will lose its opportunity to change the law if Mr Sunak fails to act swiftly ahead of an election next year.

One backbencher said: “There is a debate within government about whether this is a hill to die on and it’s unclear how much of a row the Government wants, doing this in the run-up to an election. But if they can’t say what a woman is by the time we go into an election we’re in trouble.”

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A Telegraph article reprinted by Yahoo Fears Rishi Sunak will renege on promise to clarify definition of biological sex (yahoo.com)

I wonder at the motive of the DT for pursuing this (not complaining just wondering)

Also confused:
Maria Caulfied is not the Minister for Women see https://www.gov.uk/government/people/maria-caulfield
Kemi Badenoch is the Minister for Women https://www.gov.uk/government/ministers/minister-for-women-and-equalities--3

Wonder why the article refers to MC as being the one who should ask Sunak in the House of Commons to clarify. Is there some signifigance in this that I dont understand?

To add repeal the gra too

People post on here GC feminists should be put off by the support of only the right wing press

At the same time as trying to say both left and right support gender ideology

Well which left wing press has made a decent stab at covering this? Feel free to link

Gender ideology is wrecking the left and I agree with @nilsmousehammer on all of the post

If only the right wing press said I had a right to equality does that make me evil for wanting equality?

I don't shift my views to whatever a party currently identifying as being leftist says. I don't automatically have the heebie jeebies and abandon anything a right leaning paper or right voting person says. I have this thing called critical and independent thinking.

This gender identity shit has been building up since before the 2004 gra.
I could see the signs in around 1998, although I never thought it would get this far. I think some other women saw it before then.

I feel stupid as I was oblivious until 2015.

Can you please tell us what you saw?

Not sure I can articulate it well. But in the run up to the gra being made,
There were some scholarly articles ( no I have no idea who by or exactly when) and some newspaper articles. I think Stephen whittle might have been more prominent about that time too.
It was a long running theme that had been going on before 1998, but I only noticed around that time.

It was very much, be kind, most marginalised, brave, stunning, but in a subtle way.

I was aghast at the gra passing. I had been writing to MPs for years about it at that point. Yet still was either ignored or sent massive screeds about how it was so similar to gay rights back in the day. I simply could not get through that it was nothing like. I had to stop at some point because my name and address were required and I had very grave doubts about willy Nilly giving such details out. Rightly I think given the way the whole movement went.

If you can be arsed theres a veritable encyclopedia of stuff in fwr, just look for the earliest years and you can see what we wrote then. I forget my username but its obvious by my writing style.

Me too.

For @SunnyEgg here's one of a number of articles by the amazing Sonia SSohda.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/apr/09/at-last-consensus-emerging-on-protecting-women-only-spaces

The Morning Star has published some articles:

https://morningstaronline.co.uk/a-f7db-why-i-wont-accept-the-politics-of-gender-identity-1

https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/f/time-socialists-take-action-against-gender-stereotyping

Although they both left the Guardian, Suzanne Moore and Hadley Freeman were publishing their articles there. Of course, they came under fire from the likes of Owen Jones, but those articles were published, and they have published others, such as this one from Sonia Sodha:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jul/31/dont-buy-stonewall-line-gender-identity-cant-sack-you-now

Going back to the passing of the GRA, and whether some of us were asleep at the wheel.

I think what nobody calculated (unless you were directly involved with them!) how what seemed to be an act to help a very few people to be able to legally marry as man and wife, would be come the trojan horse for gender identity.

Of those who did think about they probably thought that once same sex marriages were allowed the GRA would become an irrelevancing.

Meanwhile over at Stonewall HQ, in search of expanding their remit, as although there was / is still homophobia many legal rights had been gained.

And when you add into this that what was once Gay Liberation had become Pride, heavily influenced by queer politics (which aren't in any way as "binary" as people of the same sex being sexually attracted), the simple be kind so that a man with a GRC could marry another man, took off into the ever expanding world of self identity.

And one of the biggest (if only opposition to this ideology) were radical feminists, who continued to believe that women are oppressed on the basis of their sex. For Stonewall and hangers on to accept that, would be to accept that you cant change sex and you cant identify into a sex.

Why else has the whole TRA campaign been so misogynistic? They could have bumbled along and become a cultural movement, in the same was as Gender Benders from the 70s, when men wearing make up and dresses didn't mean anything other than breaking done gender roles.

If you dont think like those who saw the GRA as an opening into something completely different why would you think it might happen.

And I dont think it surprising that many only became aware of it as an issue when there was the consultation on reforming the GRA.

To read the proposals had to make you stop and think.

If only we were all blessed with being able to see the unintended consequences of what on face value seem like a small deal.

Yes.

A whole lot of this has been achieved by people believing the best, being kind, trusting, thinking that everyone would behave and be honourable and respect each other, that everyone involved was playing with an open hand.

Unfortunately we now know otherwise. It was an intentional grooming with a purpose in mind, it's been gloated on openly. The cosy cups of tea behind closed doors where influential people were emoted at and manipulated without fully understanding what they were being useful idiots to is just one example.

I was one of the useful, trusting idiots. I sadly learned by experience, and the grim experience has kept on coming in an ever larger tide. Law now has to be made with clear understanding and awareness that some will seek to manipulate the smallest loophole available for their own ends and do not have the capacity to equally care about others. Particularly if they are female, and in possession of biology that male people feel entitled to use.

And not wanting to get into Tories did nothing, etc., lets not forget that the Tories responded to the Women and Equalities Committee recommendation to ammend the GRA.

And in response to the level of feedback they got about how this would impact on women dialled back on some of their proposals.

Carping on about them doing nothing is just silly ya boo politics. Look at all the years Labour was in power and did nothing about the huge impact of the right to buy and the withdrawal of rights for LA to create new social housing. On the grand scale of things this has been one of the worst impacts on UK standards of living. (And putting the NHS into a level of debt only equal to many Developing Countries through PPI).

Not forgetting that on behalf of Gorden Brown the EA was ammended to allow for the GRA, and worded in such a way that "for all purposes" trans women were legally women, apart from the limitied number of exemptions. (The sheer back to front thinking on this rather than the logical for all purposes women are biological females, but there are a few exemptions when trans women can be regarded as women, ie getting married, getting a driving licence or a passport.)

But lets face it. The problem is that women's issues are never hight on the agenda of any party.

And too many women active in politics are only too aware that their role is to be supportive of the male power structure in their party.

We have a right of centre Govt, with a large majority, i think the question their supporters need to address is why the Tories have allowed this shit show to continue and why they still refuse to do anything about it.

Distractions on to left supporting press or Starmer is neither here nor there, only one party can actually change the law & Sunak/Tories are refusing to do so.

Wont be getting my vote and neither will Labour unless they buck up their ideas.

Law now has to be made with clear understanding and awareness that some will seek to manipulate the smallest loophole available for their own ends and do not have the capacity to equally care about others. Particularly if they are female, and in possession of biology that male people feel entitled to use.

That's why although I think the KPSS analysis of saying the EA doesn't need to be ammended is technically correct, the lived experience of the past 2 decades have shown us that we can not trust men not to manipulated the system to be what they want.

Its a bit like "custom and practice". Those in power, or who have social approval of those in power, create the custom and practice that suits their agenda.

(Not unlike cyclists now being free to cycle on payements because they are the chosen warriors of the green agenda - and primarily men!)

@IwantToRetire Amending the law on GRA is a very simple thing to do, responding to concerns butters no parsnips and has nothing to do with Right to Buy.
Please try and focus on what the Tories are NOT doing, TWAW is too big an issue to start bring in what previous Govts should or shouldn't have done on housing.

Cycling on pavements now! FFS its still illegal unless a shared pathway, 35% of all cyclists in clubs are female, thats a great achievement!

My dog lost her ball today, i think i will bring in the cost of Chucka replacements on to this thread!

Sunak/Tories are refusing to do so.

Sorry this is just too silly. In the face of Brexit, Covid, the Ukraine war and resulting fuel crisis, (and horrendous in fighting) it is remarkable that there has been any political movement on this. eg statements from ministers, appointment of new chair to EHRC whilst being undermined by biased civil servants.

Lets face it if Labour had been in power, the full changes to the GRA would have happened and the EHRC would be totally stonewalled.

Although I dont agree as a recent article tried to suggest that the Tories are doing this as part of the "woke war" to appeal to red wall voters thinking of returning to Labour.

question their supporters need to address is why the Tories have allowed this shit show to continue and why they still refuse to do anything about it.

The same reason Starmer stammers and witters on like an idiot when asked a direct question about it. Fear. A hell of a lot of westminster is in thrall to this, and the pressure from the activists has always been dreaded. And unfortunately Boris may have successfully fucked any chance of them doing anything as now Sunak has to fight two by elections and increasing pressure, and will be less inclined to stand up to the left parties in the house and some of his own people who will make it very hard and be very unhappy about any return of balance and care for the rights of women.

What is needed is very strong action, and at this point centralised action. There has to be growing awareness at top level that the political capture is now causing very serious problems, and that it is all getting increasingly unhinged and out of control. But the guts to turn it around? Yes, I would love someone to have them. Right now though, I have a choice between woo hoo burn women's rights, yippee, we're all on the magic reality roundabout parties, and the er, might be a problem, let's talk about and think about this and yes, women's rights matters too parties.

Dear oh dear, someone's in a strop!

If I want to make analogies in terms of how Governments do or do not behave, I will.

If you dont understand it might explain why you think making simplistic statements in any way contributes to understanding the situation.

You cant honestly believe we can discuss whether or not the EA will be ammended without looking at the processes and other pressures on Government

Nor try and imply it is only Tories who fail to do things.

And believe me, you may not like it, but in the inner city area I live in I can tell you cycling on pavements is a huge issue, but the Labour council passively condone it.

And yes it is viewed by long terms residents as part of the woke agenda.

If you think everybody thinks like you and will understand situations in your monocular way, then you will always have a problem getting your message across.

Sadly Hadley Freeman left due to the stance at The Guardian and didn’t Suzanne Moore have an article at The Telegraph tweeted to millions by Musk?

The press on the left have lost two good journalists for a reason. It’s not capable of holding GC views.

That’s the centre left, maybe the Morning Star is a different situation I don’t read it, but I wouldn’t say it’s mainstream enough to make a convincing representation for the parties such as Labour on the left.

I am sorry that you worked so hard and were ignored. Thank you for all that you did for us.

It was very much, be kind, most marginalised, brave, stunning, but in a subtle way.

They are not being kind to Dementia patients either, it is one way traffic.

Three by elections now.

I came to this much later via mn. I remember some poster names who really started to get it in front of people. They hit backlash as we still do but likely more than now. Im
not sure if they left or were forced off but I’m grateful

So was this then taken up later by the academics, the left, parma, abusers, dudes who want microchips and then ESG bankers who saw an opportunity?

This 100%. This fight is happening now.

If Labour were in power we would...

Labour weren't in power. The Tories were. We are where we are because of them. The Tories are still in power. They could actually do something to repair the damage they've done to us.

But they won't because half believe TWAW and the other half know, but don't give a shit about us either way.

If Labour were in power, the GRR would've passed. We would have self-ID through a devolved administration.

To not see this in the context of a global phenomenon enabled by Big Tech is a mistake. We've done well to hold the line as much as we have here. Context matters.