‘NHS trans surgery damaged my body for ever — it’s not safe’

[Igneococcus]

In the Sunday Times today about Richie Herron's and another unnamed patient's lawsuit.

"At the seven NHS adult gender clinics in England and Wales, surgery and cross-sex hormones are offered after the age of 18. Patients have at least two assessment appointments with a specialist medical practitioner before hormone treatment is recommended, and those who are considering surgical treatment have two further meetings with separate clinical professionals before they are referred."

I had more appointments (over a period of 18 months) for my pre-cancerous thyroid nodules before I was referred to surgery.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/cf857796-01ec-11ee-b730-2607a18701aa?shareToken=37ab04ab9cda65fdbba5187efb95be79

We are going to see more and more of these heartbreaking cases. And more legal action.

I'm certainly going to follow this.

IMO the only thing that's going to stop the NHS blindly "affirming" children with experimental surgery and untested hormone treatment without looking thoroughly into their reasons for wanting to trans, is the prospect of getting hit with expensive lawsuits.

The details will also be made public and when the health repercussions are revealed I would hope that most people will be horrified. And that de-transitioners will be encouraged to speak out, too.

It's so heartbreaking to see these cases. There is an article this morning in the DM that's bound to end up in the same, tragic situation if the surgery goes ahead:

I'm not sure how to feel about Richie's claim that the NHS is discriminating against autistic people by providing them with these surgeries. If they refused to refer them for the surgeries and let them have the final say over their own bodies wouldn't that also be discrimination? I realise that it is a complicated issue, especially when neurodiversity is involved, Richie's story is very sad.

But he wasn't rushed into surgery at all. He had 100 hours of therapy over 5 years. Adults are allowed to make their own choices about what they want to do.

I just don't think the NHS should be doing these surgeries. What happened to 'do no harm'? How is mutilating healthy bodies, removing healthy body parts and turning people into life-long patients, dependent on drugs even ethical?

Cross posting from the other thread on this:

Those 100+ sessions will have been fully affirming- ie instead of being sessions to explore the underlying reasons for his gender dysphoria, they will have morphed into therapy to help accept the need to transition, a conditioning to help him along the way in his belief that he was actually a woman.

Yes, he did have therapy that gender found very helpful and that would have ended if he didn't go ahead with the surgery. He felt pressured into surgery even if wasn't rushed.

"Today, despite multiple follow-up surgeries, my scar lines still weep, occasionally becoming inflamed and causing crippling pain. In the flesh cavity that was created to mimic a vagina, I feel mostly nothing, aside from the occasional stabs of pain. I can’t use the toilet properly . . . and no matter how hard I push or strain, a dribble emerges, which may continue for hours after I have left the seat.”

I wonder if Ritchie had been made aware that this was a possible result of surgery before he'd gone ahead. Stories of incontinence and difficulties urinating seem common, Scott Newgent's also spoken about it.

I agree, I think these surgeries should only be done in the most extreme cases of dysphoria and not on demand.

The problem is though, I’ve read many reports of people who have de-transitioned who have then been savagely attacked, bullied and ostracised by trans groups. Presumably this person had therapy before the surgery and if they didn’t do it that would be discriminatory too. Even minor surgeries have risks, those risks should have been outlined and a patient disclosure form signed. I’m not really sure how they can win in this scenario, they are damned if they do, damned if they don’t.

IIRC Ritchie has also spoken about how he was told he'd be discharged from the counselling if he didn't have surgery. This is a problem, if true.

It does seem as if ID-ing as trans is a way to get mental health support otherwise unavailable.

I don’t have the consent forms for surgery, but the consent forms for CSH (for the under 18s) are shocking in terms of how they downplay the risks- eg the consent form for testosterone doesn’t even mention the risk of vaginal atrophy.

I have followed Ritchie's story since he posted a powerful Twitter thread about his experience. It is heartbreaking and I am sure there will be more cases like this.

I hope he finds peace. Even if he doesn't win the case it will give sunlight to the damage being done to vulnerable and autistic people.

The thread:

twitter.com/tullipr/status/1536422533230206976?s=46&t=NGJBRqkXgp1UazF5I8yjXA

My oldest is currently on, what I call, the trans pathway. There has been absolutely no challenge to his belief that he is female, no one has explored if he has ASD, all the other males in the family have it, no opinion on what other issues there might be, it seems to happen very quickly with a couple of face to face appointments. I'm not happy with this, but he is an adult so I am basically helpless. If I challenge any of it, I am transphobic. Actually I am a very concerned mother who feels that he will be mutilating his body and won't be any happier. I also feel he is being fed nonsense about the success of surgery, never any problems caused by surgery. Sorry, had to get that off my chest. I feel anxious and depressed about the whole thing. The worst part is, if he finds out when it's too late, then I'm likely to get the blame, because I don't challenge enough.

The NHS needs to be sued for millions, they only way they will stop this evil. This needs to be stopped

In other cases patients don't get to decide benefits outweigh risks. I've been denied a surgery I wanted desperately at the time and so have friends because the doctors made the decision the risks outweigh the benefits. Women are routinely told no to sterilisation when they say they don't want children. With so little solid data on benefits vs risks and the existence of people like Ritchie for whom obviously they are much worse off, I wonder why different standards are being applied in this one area of medicine.

I would expect court cases to compare to e.g. the procedure applied for a 25 year old woman who wanted to be sterilized and is told no..

This is the sort of thing that court cases will be won on. Vaginal atrophy is a well known side effect. If they were doing proper follow up and collection of data surely this would be included.

Female detransitioners have said they were not told about loss of function of removal of breast tissue. You don't even need follow up to know that if you remove tissue with a specific function you will lose that function. It speaks to institutional misogyny that no importance is given to the function of breastfeeding for both mother and child

This is a very good point and not something I had not considered.

It would be interesting to know what this “therapy” consisted of, especially judging by discussion on another thread on here concerning psychotherapy.

I asked for a mastectomy due to a family risk of breast cancer. Despite seeing a psychologist and GP confirming I was completely sane, it was deemed too high risk.

and yet I read of all these healthy girls having healthy breast removed after what seems like no genuine therapy or safeguarding at all.

I hope the NHS is sued to high bloody heaven for what it has done to to these young people

This. I know several women in their 40s who have been trying to get sterilised for years who are repeatedly refused. Normally they are told that it is refused because they will change their mind about having children or might meet someone who wants children. So they have to keep experiencing gynae problems until menopause.

Why isn't there an equal "you don't know your own mind" approach applied to gender dysphoria patients?

In my 60s, I asked repeatedly for a hysterectomy after heavy, regular, persistent bleeding. Appropriate tests were carried out and nothing untoward was found. I had a coil fitted and was prescribed oestrogen gel. I have no complaints about my treatment, I’m healthy and no more bleeding. But I was told that they didn’t want to give me a hysterectomy as it was “unnecessary surgery” and they wanted to avoid the associated risks. Just to emphasise - in my 60s, with children and grandchildren.

From the experience of my son the 'therapy' seems to consist of total agreement that the patient is trans. I can see no evidence that the therapist challenges anything. My huge, very masculine looking son is being affirmed as being a trans female. No one appears to be honestly questioning it, no questions about how being a castrated male is going to improve life, no information given about any side effects. I feel as if I am stuck in a situation where he has been brainwashed by a cult, and I am the only one who can see it.

💐lois. So awful for you.

I don't usually give these details or personal feelings on here but yesterday was a particularly bad day for me and I think that I have reached a point where I am fed up with being made to feel I am unreasonable. Perhaps others are the unreasonable ones?