‘NHS trans surgery damaged my body for ever — it’s not safe’

[Igneococcus]

In the Sunday Times today about Richie Herron's and another unnamed patient's lawsuit.

"At the seven NHS adult gender clinics in England and Wales, surgery and cross-sex hormones are offered after the age of 18. Patients have at least two assessment appointments with a specialist medical practitioner before hormone treatment is recommended, and those who are considering surgical treatment have two further meetings with separate clinical professionals before they are referred."

I had more appointments (over a period of 18 months) for my pre-cancerous thyroid nodules before I was referred to surgery.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/cf857796-01ec-11ee-b730-2607a18701aa?shareToken=37ab04ab9cda65fdbba5187efb95be79

You are not. I repeat not being unreasonable. I'm so sorry you are having to watch your child go through this.

There is a question to be asked about the NHS and Doctors.

Jordan Peterson stated that a Doctor isn't a scientist, he went on to explain that a psychologist is a scientist and why.

Is the NHS a quasi religion if they are not scientists and why is the UK taxpayer funding a quasi religion butcher shop?

I had my vaccines, I note that they lied to us about a vaccine stopping transmission. After the NHS told us that men are women I lost trust in any of them.

Another question. Are the NHS and private hospitals keeping any records about pre-advice ops, procedures and follow-ups? So: MtF - continual stretching of vagina, potential urinary problems, loss of pleasure, impact of continual hormones. FtM - impact of top surgery, continual hormones, inefficiency if done of phalloplasty and similar urinary problems.

I have several people in my friends and family who have transed without surgery though I think most back along would be transvestite and as males living with females. Another is a 30 year old transman who seems very happy but has simply gone with hormones.

Until we have proper records of before, after and now, we won't know.

There is an incredible amount of validation online for adolescents now struggling with mental health, neurodiverse conditions, gender minorities, and some sexual orientation minorities (pan, bi etc). (Gay and lesbian seems to no longer be very trendy). Youtube and tiktok (and probably other platforms) glorify and validate all kinds of issues that lead to a great deal of support, attention, peer validation, and acceptance / inclusion if you are speak up or tell your story. Adolescence and identity has always been a developmental struggle. I do think there needs to be a lot more research on that developmental struggle in those with ASD, ADHD, OCD, Tourettes, some MH issues and other contextual factors that make the drive for acceptance or the need to find community or the feeling of being understood by others who are different so strong.

Heart breaking. Abuse. Will there be a court case to charge the people responsible for helping this occur.

It's time people stood up against this nonsense. Leave children's bodies alone. It appears to be fashionable to think you are in the 'wrong body' now. You have only 1 body and it's YOURS. It's not the wrong one. You may not like aspects of it but to disfigure it!

This is my opinion too. If they had been refused, the suit would have been about that.

Also crazy that they got all that therapy despite waiting lists.

It's awful and it's unfortunate. But ultimately, they chose to do this to themselves!

I'm sure we had a thread where this went round in circles.

It's not about the individual. It's the diagnostic processes.

The diagnosis and associated medical treatment is not evidence based either anyway.

Given medical transitions on the nhs are double what they were 10 years ago, that's a huge drain on a service that is not evidence based and potentially harmful longer term.

The NHS frequently does and says things that individual patients disagree with and kick off about. Because what a patient wants, and thinks is happening, and what is actually appropriate or possible treatment, are often not the same thing. Treatment is not based on patient satisfaction and it would not be a good thing for it to be.

It's confusing 'not giving me what I want/not making me happy' with 'doing something wrong'.

However this is the only area of treatment backed by a political lobby successfully frightening medics into fear of displeasing the said lobby and the consequences of doing so. And through that fear, they are failing vulnerable patients.

you're right no other part of the nhs just blindly does what a patient wants

I was all lined up for a hysterectomy (that by that point I really really wanted, and needed) had the pre op assessment...date and time slot.

Got a blood clot in my leg the next day so no operation.

They won't do it now because the risk is too high. You can imagine I was not very happy! But my consultant weighed up risk v benefits and decided it wasn't worth the risk.

You don't always get what you want, why does this group of patients? Especially when it's not actually solving a physical problem with a body but a mental one. It's not actually going to harm them in any way to remain in their intact healthy body. Yes it may cause them mental distress, but that is treatable through therapy.

@MumOfYoungTransAdult thanks, I accept all of your points and appreciate the additional context.

That small child will almost certainly be on a road to medical transition. It may seem easy now to allow him to believe he is a girl, but soon enough it will be clear to all that he is not, and a more serious identity crises has been set up.

And the "solution" will be medical transition.

Comforting lies usually aren't.

I've not read all comments, sorry if already said, but I think the fact that he had therapy and was still given treatments that were unsuitable isn't the gotcha some people think it is - it shows that the therapeutic methods themselves are inadequate in their current form. Affirmation isn't investigative therapy. That's the whole point. 100 hours and they still got it wrong, because the module they follow is biased. Hammer? Nail.

Model, not module. Soz!

You didn't need to read the comments - nail on head @Grumblevision

Yeah 100 sessions is worth shit if it's 100 sessions all basically preparing you and asking if you are ready for your surgery and if you say no to surgery you can't have any therapy.

I have a friend whose son when he was little loved wearing dresses and being a princess. She just let him get on with it without comment. He’s now a ‘typical’ teenage boy, short hair and trousers. No affirmation needed, no thoughts of transition. He just followed his interests and she allowed him to. That’s surely what we should encourage children to do, explore and be themselves free of gender stereotypes. Then there will presumably be far fewer children thinking there’s something wrong with them.

Absolutely.

Morse things going on behind the scenes though.

Unfortunately there's a group of parents, often mothers, who appear to be overly affirming and enjoy the attention on social media.

@WarriorN I agree with this about some mothers. An online acquaintance who has since badmouthed me and unfriended me over my perceived terfiness is positively gleeful about her trans daughter. She was visibly annoyed that daughter was not posting anything for trans day of remembrance, so said she was doing it for her. She's made it her identity, and of course now identifies as "queer" despite having always been in relationships with men.

What is the ideal outcome for Ritchie at this point; I mean will money potentially won from suing help at all?

The surgery is not reversible, but can the chronic side effects be alleviated within the private sector? Will additional therapy help him come to terms with himself?

I don't know how you face up to a life spent in a body with such limitations in terms of health and relationships. Especially when your "community" turns its back on you.

This is so awful: parents gaining, or trying to gain, kudos from this over SM. The poor children are just props in a narcissistic, exploitative endeavour.

I’d distance myself very rapidly from any parent doing this with their child.

So much of this agenda relies on bystanders really enjoying the scolding of others, the feeling righteous and special and progressive, and virtue signalling cookies.

Useful idiots. Who are doing it for themselves, and not the people they're using for their own emotional need-meeting.

I don’t think he is suing them as well is he? I know he has put in a judicial review but I hadn’t heard that he was suing too.

The guess the ideal outcome from a judicial review would be hugely tightening the parameters under which gender surgery can take place, if at all, so others don’t suffer the same as him.

My understanding is that he's also suing. If true, any damages from that may enable him to access private healthcare for any necessary remedial surgery to help with chronic problems e.g. with urination. If he has the means to go private it will presumably be a much shorter waiting time for anything he needs.

I’m not a fan of suing the NHS, but maybe genital reassignment surgery should be viewed as “high risk”, like maternity/obstetrics, because when things go wrong it’s hugely expensive for Trusts in compensation pay-outs. If nothing else, surgery’s potential side-effects and complications and its sheer irreversibility must be made horrifyingly clear in surgical consent literature/forms. Neither patients nor providers should undertake this stuff lightly.

It’s quite clear that they aren’t clear enough on the negatives of surgery. The person we know literally thought that heterosexual men would want to date them after surgery, it was a shock they weren’t all gagging to sleep with them.