‘NHS trans surgery damaged my body for ever — it’s not safe’

[Igneococcus]

In the Sunday Times today about Richie Herron's and another unnamed patient's lawsuit.

"At the seven NHS adult gender clinics in England and Wales, surgery and cross-sex hormones are offered after the age of 18. Patients have at least two assessment appointments with a specialist medical practitioner before hormone treatment is recommended, and those who are considering surgical treatment have two further meetings with separate clinical professionals before they are referred."

I had more appointments (over a period of 18 months) for my pre-cancerous thyroid nodules before I was referred to surgery.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/cf857796-01ec-11ee-b730-2607a18701aa?shareToken=37ab04ab9cda65fdbba5187efb95be79

Should this surgeon have been allowed to carry on amputating healthy limbs from patients who requested it? After all, it's what the patients wanted and were asking for.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/625680.stm

The medical community quickly stamped down on this after initially getting excited.

The treatment for body dysmorphia is now long term therapy, not cosmetic surgery. As this has been proven to lead to more dissatisfaction and more dysphoria.

Neolara
But he wasn't rushed into surgery at all. He had 100 hours of therapy over 5 years. Adults are allowed to make their own choices about what they want to do.

Others who've experienced GIDS, especially those who've been through paediatric GIDS, say the gatekeeping is very low in comparison to peads.

Also - Ritchie was told therapy would stop unless he physically transitioned.

His therapy was 100% affirming. It was him who was holding back on transitioning and wanted to continue therapy to explore the ideas. And support for extreme depression and OCD, These ideas were not explored beyond affirmation.

He was also told post surgery that his immediate feelings of regret were due to the anaesthetic.

If they can't get it right for adults, how the fuck is it ok for children?

You sound like a good case for endometrial ablation. Was that offered?

After scans and a hysterescopy the coil was suggested both to limit the bleeding and as the progesterone component of HRT. Other routes might have been taken had it not worked. I’ve had it replaced already - 4 years is advised if primarily used for HRT, which I never intend to stop. Medics seem OK with this.

The NHS shouldn’t be funding this shite to begin with, these people are healthy.

This is a very pertinent point.

So from the experience of people in this thread alone, the NHS has no problem at all with saying no to non trans patients, and explaining that they wont do x procedures (even when desperately wanted and the patient is in distress) because of the risk of regret. Not risk of appalling side effects and lifelong damage as a result, but just risk of regret.

But they don't say no to patients presenting as trans. Those brakes are off, the treatment approach is very unequal.

The 'pathway' and support is conditional upon the person in question progressing towards surgery, and is only allowed to be affirmative. This negates it being informed consent or a balanced presentation of treatment options. This is not replicated in any other form of NHS treatment.

If the T+ political lobby wishes to argue that this is untrue, and that they have not successfully controlled and intimidated the NHS into performing this surgery unethically and for political reasons rather than the patient's objective best interests?

We are left with very sad cases such as this demonstrating that some patients who have this surgery regret it, feel harmed, live with permanent and extreme end pain and harm to their bodies that is life changing in itself, and are saying themselves that they did not give informed consent and did not have the capacity to consent to the full reality of this.

So which is it?

Either we listen to all trans voices and what they have to say, or we don't. We can't just pick the ones saying what the lobby likes to hear.

And this bullshit about collateral damage to some people's lives is fine because others will end up happy also has to go. It's relied on way too much by this political lobby, who do not seem capable of valuing anyone not currently being useful to them. Even their own people, who got into the mess they are in through trusting them.

I was reading the story of another detransitioner and they truly felt that all the issues in their life were due to gender dysphoria and all the support from the trans community and health professionals buoyed them along. They said they were told of some of the risks of surgery but no one really explored the root of their unhappiness to see if it had another cause and no one told them about the high rates of depression anxiety pain etc in those who do transition. This person said they were still really sure it was the right thing until about two years post surgery when it was clear that transition hadn’t resolved any of their underlying issues or distress. Instead now they had a body that had more issues than it had before, sex and relationships were really complicated, they were still unhappy and depressed and still not sure who they really were.

Their focus was not so much anti transition but two fold- 1) be far more honest about the realities of life after transition rather than using best case scenarios and success stories as representative of most; and 2) really delve into identity confusion and all the possible correlates and contextual factors and challenges / trauma the person has had that can make people really unhappy with themselves and work on self acceptance and resolving underlying issues regardless of whether someone does decide to proceed or not with surgery. Because there is still a lot to accept about yourself after you transition and it might not have been the answer you thought it was.

Ritchie gave long interview on the Gender: A Wider Lens podcast where he explained that he was repeatedly pressed to progress to surgery and, after several delays, was told he’d be discharged from the service - and the regular therapy he was receiving - if surgery was no longer the goal. It was fear of having the therapeutic support removed that swayed him. That’s not OK. I’d suggest listening to that podcast to get a fuller understanding of his situation.

So sorry about your son Lois 💔 the havoc this is wreaking on families as well as the poor people suffering from these delusions is simply a tragedy. Gender dysphoria should never have been declassified as a mental illness. Why not declassify body dysmorphia as well, provide endless plastic surgery to those convinced they look like the goblin from Labyrinth on the NHS.

No sane and civilised society should Dr Moreau healthy bodies into the painful and undignified state Ritchie is currently in. He’s only in his thirties for gods sake - not even halfway through life, and he has to live with this decision for the rest of it. The very hellbent, of which I suppose there will always be a tiny, primarily male faction, should have to save up their own money and go somewhere like Iran for it.

The medical community quickly stamped down on this after initially getting excited.

Completely different cohort and scenario but there appears to be a new social contagion among (mostly) young women requiring feeding tubes. Either nasogastric/jejunal or direct gastrostomy tubes.

I'm not saying none of them have particular illnesses requiring this treatment because of course some of them do.

However in my area of the NHS it is clear there is an increase, they share certain characteristics, and a look on social media shows how many there are and the number of followers and affirmation in the comments that they get.

Take the young lady who posted this Tiktok (I'm not linking but you can see the screenshot). She demonstrated removing her nasogastric feeding tube as she is going to an adventure park TOMORROW and doesn't want it to catch on equipment. If she is reliant on the tube for feeding and fluids how will she maintain her nutrition over the next 24 hours?

We have had an 18 year old come in demanding parenteral (intravenous) nutrition. (Normally reserved for eg ITU or post significant abdominal surgery etc).

Discussing with the nutrition nurse specialist she said she has attended a recent conference. Current thinking is *Don't allow them to swap consultants til they find someone that goes along with them
*Stand firm and don't give in to their demands

We are getting a new consultant and the plan is he will manage all the young women that fall into this particular cohort.

loislovesstewie I feel so much for you, I was terrified (and angry) when I found my ASD son was accepting the trans ideology premise. I knew he felt he didn’t fit due to his ASD and I found he was describing himself as gender non-conforming. As a GNC female I ripped into him insisting he told me in what way he was GNC, he couldn’t and backtracked. Now he is old enough to live away from home I swing between hoping he’s old enough to no longer be captured and fear that I wouldn’t know what was going on until too late

It's a good question.

It's butchery. I cannot get the images out my head I've seen of horrific surgery and the stories of complications.

It isn't something the nhs should be doing at all. It's surgery to prop up an ideology.

fanny looks like there's a significant internet impact there too

Social contagions seem for young adults to be becoming more and more munchausens type seeking of medical care to meet emotional needs. What is it that we're doing to kids that means they're going this way, that weakness and infirmity is being seen as some kind of desirable thing, what needs is it meeting?

Sorry to see this, completely understand why you're so worried.
Is he gay? Sorry if I've missed that further up the thread. Could you or someone else he trusts explore with him how he feels about his sexuality?

I was dipping into Angela carter’s collected nonfiction this morning and in the 70s she reviewed a book about anorexia, succinctly describing the social contagion element of the disease and comparing it to the proliferation of schizophrenia in the sixties after the release of the book The Divided Self. There is really nothing new under the sun, but the internet really speeds it up.

NG tubes are really unpleasant both to have insterted (you need to suck / drink at the same time and hope it doesn't go into your lung) and to have in place.

I have had them in the past as a young woman for small bowel obstructions from previous bowel surgery and it was a terrible experience. In that case you need them to reduce pressure on the small bowel.

They tape it to your nose to keep it in place and it is pretty painful and such a relief to have it removed.

I can't understand people who would want one voluntarily. It is an experience I hope never to have again.

Newcastle (where Ritchie lives) is home to a well respected and large medical school and teaching hospitals, plus the Great North Children's Hospital which is a stones throw from the medical school.

The school signed some sort of trans rights healthcare pledge not so long ago too.

When you start looking around at the extent of the lobbying and the outcomes it's chilling.

Definitely. I've been researching instagram and TikTok.

Anyone know at what point/number of followers it becomes possible to monetise the channel?
Some have thousands of followers and of course there is a need for new content which will be rewarded with affirming comments.

Just what we say @Orangesandlemons77
Though it gets easier overtime. Some in TikTok demonstrate inserting their own.

This is the charter:

gladd.co.uk/activism-conversion-therapy-charter/

This GLADD medical schools charter is attempting to put an all-out ban on discussing any factors that could be behind gender confusion with patients, even though that is contrary to the law. Even if this charter is not legally binding, it is still making doctors (and future doctors) think that patients with 'gender identity' can only be affirmed. This will endanger patient care at a time when we need to be reversing these procedures in the NHS, not bringing new doctors into it with the absolute wrong approach to it.

grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/32-medical-schools-in-the-uk-have

So clinicians treating Ritchie or people like Ritchie will only have been/ be allowed to affirm.

If they've been though a school who's signed this.