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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Disneyland greeter

183 replies

Neverplayleapfrogwithmrpipes · 31/05/2023 07:59

https://twitter.com/jonesville/status/1663381709667303425?s=46&t=mjCevLYB8rsDn2VcwfsB7w

This popped up on my Twitter regarding a Disney greeter called Nick in a dress.

https://twitter.com/jonesville/status/1663381709667303425?s=46&t=mjCevLYB8rsDn2VcwfsB7w

OP posts:
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5
BonfireLady · 31/05/2023 08:45

This isn't a problem. It's a man in a dress.

The problem is what gets teamed with it. For example, telling men (and women) that they need to be dressed a certain way, telling young boys that if they like dresses they are probably girls (so let's put you on puberty blockers, resulting in sterility) etc.

The other problem is people clamping down with bigotry on anyone that doesn't conform to sexist stereotypes.

It's just a man in a dress. Perhaps he "identifies" as a TW. Perhaps not. Either way, he's still a man in a dress. If it transpires that he is a TW and would prefer me to use she/her to describe him, I have no issue with that and would make that switch. I'm still aware of biology - so it doesn't change anything in that respect.

He's not dressed in any sexualised way. Therefore, no issue in front of kids. Obviously if he starts overtly getting off on kids seeing him dressed as "a little girl", or has any known history of autogynophilia then he absolutely shouldn't be given a platform to play out a fantasy. That's one of the reasons why there are safeguarding checks when adults work with children. But unless we know this, it's just a man in a dress.

zibzibara · 31/05/2023 08:47

So long as he doesn't pretend that this attire makes him a woman, I don't see any problem with this.

Motorina · 31/05/2023 08:55

Agreed. I would much rather widen the bounds of what it means to be and dress as a man, than tell little boys who want to wear dresses that that means that they're girls.

If toddler Jazz Jennings had just been allowed to wear the dress, then young adult Jazz might still have a penis.

BonfireLady · 31/05/2023 09:14

If toddler Jazz Jennings had just been allowed to wear the dress, then young adult Jazz might still have a penis.

Indeed. And Jackie Green... and so many more. It's impossible to know who would have had a debilitating gender dysphoria which (after all other possible treatments have been properly tried, not just a tick box then affirmation) resulted in a final resort gender reassignment. However, it's very possible to know that assuming a child's preference for a dress and "girly things" indicates that they are trans is wrong on every level. No child should transition. To transition a child locks them in to a pathway of how they see themselves in the world as they get old enough to understand the world around them.

But if seeing Nick in a dress helps a boy to realise that there is no set way to be a boy, that's great.
All of this very much depends on Nick and his views.

RufustheSpecuIatingreindeer · 31/05/2023 09:42

But if seeing Nick in a dress helps a boy to realise that there is no set way to be a boy, that's great

this

ive known a few little boys who wore Disney dresses or who wanted to be a Disney Princess

murasaki · 31/05/2023 09:44

Really not bothered by this. There are far bigger issues at play and focusing on this looks a tad bigoted which is not a good look when there are important topics to discuss.

Coffeesnob11 · 31/05/2023 09:44

My ss loves wearing a skirt. I am really proud of him. He knows he is a man but likes wearing a skirt and sometimes makeup. I am a woman, as a child I liked cars, trains and making mid pies. I am very much for anyone can wear or like what they want and stay the sex they were born as. I am so glad I was bought up away from this era.

Gatehouse77 · 31/05/2023 09:45

RufustheSpecuIatingreindeer · 31/05/2023 09:42

But if seeing Nick in a dress helps a boy to realise that there is no set way to be a boy, that's great

this

ive known a few little boys who wore Disney dresses or who wanted to be a Disney Princess

Agree.
It's only an issue if it's about being a woman rather than challenging gender stereotypes.
You wouldn't bat an eyelid if a woman had short hair and wore trousers but still considered herself a woman. Rightly so.
In turn, men are allowed to buck conformity.

highlandspooce · 31/05/2023 09:46

You have posted this is discussion but not actually discussed? What are your thoughts OP?

LizzieSiddal · 31/05/2023 09:47

I too don't really see a problem with this. If he said his name was Nicola then I would.

AnonyMenOhPee · 31/05/2023 09:48

LizzieSiddal · 31/05/2023 09:47

I too don't really see a problem with this. If he said his name was Nicola then I would.

He can call himself whatever name he likes. It’s got fuck all to do with you.

3peassuit · 31/05/2023 09:51

As long as he doesn’t identify as a woman, I don’t see a problem. I think it’s rather a good thing for little boys who like dressing up to have it normalised in this way.

BonfireLady · 31/05/2023 09:57

RufustheSpecuIatingreindeer · 31/05/2023 09:42

But if seeing Nick in a dress helps a boy to realise that there is no set way to be a boy, that's great

this

ive known a few little boys who wore Disney dresses or who wanted to be a Disney Princess

As I typed that, I was thinking of something I saw from Mr Menno where he said he wished there were more role models out there telling boys and men that there is no set way to be a boy or a man.

Without role models to show that it's perfectly normal to play around with different ways of dressing etc, there will be more boys who start to believe that they are probably girls. The awful comments on the Twitter thread won't help with this either.

Some boys who like dresses will grow up to be straight, some to be gay. Either way, having the space to explore without adults imposing their own interpretations is so important.

I'm rooting for Nick to be vocal about this now 🤞🤞🤞 However, the caveats above still stand. It's such a shame in today's world that something as simple as Nick in a dress isn't simple at all.

(As an aside, I'm also waiting to be called out on this thread for my "naivety" on what it means when a man "cross dresses".... Autogynophilia is very real - and would be a total game changer - but it shouldn't be a go to assumption just because there is a man in a dress who is promoting the sale of dresses)

PronounssheRa · 31/05/2023 09:58

I don't see a problem with it either.

Though 2 observation. The backlash in America is really ramping up, how far and how hard the pendulum will swing is a worry. And second how fucking expensive are those Disney dresses.

Pieceofpurplesky · 31/05/2023 10:09

This doesn't bother me. There are also men dressed as giant mice and other animals. It's just a costume in this instance

RufustheSpecuIatingreindeer · 31/05/2023 11:09

It's such a shame in today's world that something as simple as Nick in a dress isn't simple at all

it is,

when i was a dinner lady there was a little 4 year old who was too shy to ask anyone to play. I asked a friendly child if he would play with ‘ben’, ben said lets play i’m trapped in a tower and you rescue me….friendly child said ‘awesome, I’ll be batman’ and ben said ‘I’ll be Belle’

i did chat to him about his siblings (he had a brother) and if he liked dressup (he did, his favourite dress was obviously Belles 😀)

PriOn1 · 31/05/2023 11:22

I hope he’s a really nice man, who’s good at his job and that parents who might be concerned about their sons who like dressing up might be persuaded that it’s perfectly okay.

sanluca · 31/05/2023 11:23

I think the man looks really happy and excited at being a fairy godmother apprentice. Good for him and nice way for some gender stereotype to be bashed to smithereens.

dimorphism · 31/05/2023 11:25

I have no problem with men in dresses / skirts. Men in dresses / skirts are great. Beckham in a sarong, for example. Plenty of cultures have men who wear what in this country would pass for a dress anyway. Scottish men look mighty fine in their kilts.

I have a huge problem with men in dresses who tell my kids they're bigots for noticing that they're men in dresses and trying to force tiny children (and their parents) collude in the lie that they're women.

There's a world of difference. It doesn't look like this bloke was pretending to be a woman so no problem at all.

Hoppinggreen · 31/05/2023 11:27

I think it’s great, it’s saying boys and men can wear what are traditionally seen as feminine clothes. If this were more normalised then perhaps so many males would not think they were in the wrong body just because they like pink

GrumpyPanda · 31/05/2023 11:53

LizzieSiddal · 31/05/2023 09:47

I too don't really see a problem with this. If he said his name was Nicola then I would.

Depends whether he was also identifying as Italian I guess.

LizzieSiddal · 31/05/2023 12:23

He can call himself whatever name he likes. It’s got fuck all to do with you.

Of course he can but if he chooses a woman’s name and thinks that makes him a woman, then it is my business.

ColdMeg · 31/05/2023 12:57

I am afraid I am going to have to disagree here.

As a costume, this is terrible. The dress doesn't fit. It's too short for him. He's stuffed the pockets full of items that then pull the fabric across the hips. And the socks and shoes are just horrific. If I was paying that kind of money, I'd think Disney were taking the absolute piss.

If they want males to work in this attraction, then they are going to need to come up with better clothing than this. Take the back veil away, and you've got massive 1940s ammunitions factory vibes. How is that magical?

ColdMeg · 31/05/2023 13:00

Or Call the Midwife.

Give him a red cardigan, and he'd look like an extra from Call the Midwife. All those kids aren't really going into a princess boutique, they are going to get a TB injection.

Honestly.

Ponderingwindow · 31/05/2023 13:08

We should be expanding the definition of acceptable clothing and styles for men. Men absolutely can wear dresses. As long as there is no claim that dress equates to woman, there is no issue.