Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Let Women Speak - a new song to extol the virtues and bravery of KJK!

188 replies

IwantToRetire · 30/05/2023 16:44

If you like folksy ballards this might appeal.

But am really posting to show how LWS has gone global.

US musicians writing about events in NZ organised by UK campaigner!

"This is the Ballad of Posie Parker
Before it gets light it's gotta get darker
Down under in Auckland they thought that they could stop her
But she never loses 'cause she's the Posie Parker"

https://whistle.bandzoogle.com/track/3427154/let-women-speak

OP posts:
Brisland · 02/06/2023 12:29

☀️☀️☀️☀️☀️

Hepwo · 02/06/2023 12:30

flaffydaffy · 02/06/2023 12:13

So you want to remove exemptions? Is that what this is about? Do you want to make it so that nobody has to prove a legitimate and proportionate aim in order to exclude trans people? I mean that makes a hell of a lot more sense than what Hepwo has said but that is CHANGING it not CLARIFYING it.

She didn't say that.
She said that the exemptions in the GRA and the EA which already state reasons for legal exclusion with a GRA, then it arguably already meant biological sex. Which it did and still does.

The fact that it has to be spelt out is an indication of how much argument there has been over the meaning of sex by those that wanted it to default to an identity version of sex at all times.

This is why there's so much complaining now, because the claimed ambiguity is being removed.

It's all overblown. Balance has been restored with the addition of the word biological.

Of course now people like Helen Belcher claim that they are sufficiently biological and there is no definition of biological anyhoo.

This flight of fancy was met with silence by the EHRC which was taken as an inability to define biological rather than a studious unwillingness to entertain yet more inanity.

It's bonkers when you write it all down isn't it?

Empowermenomore · 02/06/2023 12:37

Legal sex (whatever that is) should not trump sex (the biological imprint at conception).

Intersex conditions that are ambiguous (is it 0,002%?) have medical exploration to decide a pathway.

Choosing a gender should not trump being born female or male.

flaffydaffy · 02/06/2023 12:39

Hepwo · 02/06/2023 12:30

She didn't say that.
She said that the exemptions in the GRA and the EA which already state reasons for legal exclusion with a GRA, then it arguably already meant biological sex. Which it did and still does.

The fact that it has to be spelt out is an indication of how much argument there has been over the meaning of sex by those that wanted it to default to an identity version of sex at all times.

This is why there's so much complaining now, because the claimed ambiguity is being removed.

It's all overblown. Balance has been restored with the addition of the word biological.

Of course now people like Helen Belcher claim that they are sufficiently biological and there is no definition of biological anyhoo.

This flight of fancy was met with silence by the EHRC which was taken as an inability to define biological rather than a studious unwillingness to entertain yet more inanity.

It's bonkers when you write it all down isn't it?

But it's been clarified now. What else needs to be done? I go back to this which I appreciate was not you:
"What's being asked for is not a "bathroom bill", but the exemptions in the Equality Act to reflect what they were intended for, to offer safety, privacy and dignity for women and girls where there is a need for single sex facilities (and men and boys of course). And for service providers/employers to feel that they can use them for the comfort of their female customers, employees etc, without being told that they are breaking the law."

The exemptions in the Equality Act have already been clarified, so the only remaining thing being asked for is that service providers feel they can use the guidelines?

Hepwo · 02/06/2023 12:47

Yes, an entire EDI industry has been telling service providers that exemptions had to be based on sex as an identity and not biological. There's been a billion words expended in support of the claim that no-one knows what sex means so it must default to identity at all times and exclusion is always illegal.

Adding the word biological is intended to bring that to an end and allow the exemptions to be used without debilitating legal threats.

It's perfectly reasonable but some people just don't like it.

Like you for example, you are embarrassed by women wanting single sex services.

I expect you think shaming is a good approach?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 02/06/2023 12:51

Excellent explanation, @Hepwo

Brisland · 02/06/2023 12:53

And then there are the TW (biological males who identify as women) who very aggressively insist they are “biological women”. According to them, they are biological and “women” thus they are biologically female….

Accurate and scientifically based definitions are needed, and consistent terminology (that is specifically defined) needs to be in place - or everything will remain fucked.

flaffydaffy · 02/06/2023 12:53

Hepwo · 02/06/2023 12:47

Yes, an entire EDI industry has been telling service providers that exemptions had to be based on sex as an identity and not biological. There's been a billion words expended in support of the claim that no-one knows what sex means so it must default to identity at all times and exclusion is always illegal.

Adding the word biological is intended to bring that to an end and allow the exemptions to be used without debilitating legal threats.

It's perfectly reasonable but some people just don't like it.

Like you for example, you are embarrassed by women wanting single sex services.

I expect you think shaming is a good approach?

So do you think the reason businesses by and large do not have signs up on their toilets and changing rooms saying 'these toilets are designated by biological sex only' is because of a lack of awareness of the new guidance? And you want to raise awareness of it. That's fine I guess but this guidance has been out for a year and so far I haven't seen a sign like that up anywhere I've been and I think if it was just low awareness I would have seen it by now in at least one place.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 02/06/2023 12:54

That's fine I guess

Good. Thanks for your support.

FrippEnos · 02/06/2023 12:58

flaffydaffy · 02/06/2023 07:58

They're defending their existing rights I think, rather than asking for new rights.

Their new rights are playing in single sex sports, and going into single sex spaces.
To name two.

Hepwo · 02/06/2023 12:59

That's fine I guess but this guidance has been out for a year and so far I haven't seen a sign like that up anywhere I've been and I think if it was just low awareness I would have seen it by now in at least one place.

The aforementioned EDI industry went into overdrive with the explanation that the guidance had no legal standing.

The addition of the word biological to the Equal Act is the keystone which will make easier to use.

This is why the meltdown has reached epic proportions.

anyolddinosaur · 02/06/2023 16:08

@flaffydaffy I'm sorry I have neither the time nor the crayons to try and explain logic to you.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Swipe left for the next trending thread