Page 5 | Let Women Speak - a new song to extol the virtues and bravery of KJK!

IwantToRetire · 2023-05-30T15:44:47+00:00

If you like folksy ballards this might appeal. But am really posting to show how LWS has gone global. US musicians writing about events in NZ organised by UK campaigner! ^"This is the Ballad of Posie Parker ^ ^Before it gets light it's gotta get darker ^ ^Down under in Auckland they thought that they could stop her ^ ^But she never loses 'cause she's the Posie Parker"^ [[https://whistle.bandzoogle.com/track/3427154/let-women-speak https://whistle.bandzoogle.com/track/3427154/let-women-speak]]

RufustheSpecuIatingreindeer · 02/06/2023 08:36

I support Posies right to speak even if I don’t agree with everything she says, quite often its the phasing of something that in principle I agree with but maybe not how she has said it

but thats just my opinion, there is no doubt however that she is very brave

and she is only someone I read about on mumsnet, there are also misquotes, or lies if you prefer, and distortions of what she has said…so it can be hard to get the truth sometimes

my understanding of how she works though is that it can be very off the cuff, it can be very easy for people to put a bad faith interpretation on whats said…like JKR for example

seXX · 02/06/2023 08:40

flaffydaffy · 02/06/2023 07:58

They're defending their existing rights I think, rather than asking for new rights.

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What rights are they defending and what do they need defending from?

Neithe · 02/06/2023 08:41

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Hepwo · 02/06/2023 08:42

I'm happy to talk about KJK, I'm just bored of the "we hate KJK" playbook as I said.

I also said I don't get into the dishonesty to and fro.

So that's my KJK limits.

I think the two Oxbridge men are directly relevant to KJKs Standing for women underlying messages because they are in support of identity being more important than sex aren't they?

Hepwo · 02/06/2023 08:43

One has to wonder why.

How posh of you.

One doesn't need to wonder, I've explained it twice now.

SwitchDiver · 02/06/2023 08:44

Giggorata · 02/06/2023 00:39

Here's a better one about the incidents I read recently:

To be sung to the tune of “I Come from a Land Down Under” by Men at Work:

Posie Parker Down Under
Travelled to a women's meeting
Rioters and drums beating
I met a strange lady, he made me nervy
He had a beard and wasn’t curvy

And he said
Welcome to a land down under
Where women's rights are torn asunder
All your words and rights plundered
You'd better run, you'd better take cover

Met a man in a dress with ruffles
He was six foot four and full of muscles
I said “you can't take our language”
But he just snarled and gave me a knuckle sandwich

And I said
You're a load of thugs and nutters
No truth in the things you utter
You're not sisters or mothers
Just deluded dressed up brothers

Back in one piece in the the UK
With fire in me and a lot to say
I said to the men, did you get the email?
Women are adult human females

And I said
I come from a world of wonder
Where women support each another
Can't you hear, can't you hear the thunder?
You'd better run, you'd better take cover

That’s quite good! I was wondering if this thread was going to have any more songs, as it had sort of gone off on a tangent of criticising posters what posted songs they have seen rather than the songs themselves.

Neithe · 02/06/2023 08:45

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

flaffydaffy · 02/06/2023 08:46

Hepwo · 02/06/2023 08:42

I'm happy to talk about KJK, I'm just bored of the "we hate KJK" playbook as I said.

I also said I don't get into the dishonesty to and fro.

So that's my KJK limits.

I think the two Oxbridge men are directly relevant to KJKs Standing for women underlying messages because they are in support of identity being more important than sex aren't they?

So you're happy to talk about her only if it's praise. Cool.

I literally have no idea whatsoever who the "two Oxbridge men" are.

Hepwo · 02/06/2023 08:49

"So you're happy to talk about her only if it's praise. Cool."

How binary of you. There's only praise or dishonesty?

SwitchDiver · 02/06/2023 08:49

SueVineer · 01/06/2023 23:51

How awful. There was very serious violence at that rally- one woman had her foot broken and another elderly woman had her skull fractured . A mob of angry violent men attacked a group of peaceful women.

please speak to your daughter about violence against women.

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Thank you for your concern but my DC are well versed in VAWG and against Black people for protesting. My DC are fully aware that protests and rallies may mean a punch or soup for a white woman, but worse for a Black woman or man as I have shown them the list of victims killed for simply being Black and going to BLM protests.

Im baffled as to why merely seeing and sharing a silly song has somehow morphed into accusations of having written the song or is somehow a reflection of what “sort of people” we are. It’s just a song about Posie Parker my DC saw online and shared with me and reflects someone out there’s perspective. It’s not my view or my DC’s view.

flaffydaffy · 02/06/2023 08:57

seXX · 02/06/2023 08:40

What rights are they defending and what do they need defending from?

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They have the right to live as the gender they have transitioned to including things like having the right gender on their documents, access to healthcare like hormones etc and access to the spaces of their gender. The threat to that is activism from the gender critical side. In some US states some of these rights have been taken away e.g. the bathroom bill in Florida. They want to stop that kind of thing happening here.
You obviously don't agree with this cause but it is the cause they are defending.

Brisland · 02/06/2023 09:06

flaffydaffy · 02/06/2023 08:57

They have the right to live as the gender they have transitioned to including things like having the right gender on their documents, access to healthcare like hormones etc and access to the spaces of their gender. The threat to that is activism from the gender critical side. In some US states some of these rights have been taken away e.g. the bathroom bill in Florida. They want to stop that kind of thing happening here.
You obviously don't agree with this cause but it is the cause they are defending.

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They have all of those rights - based on their “gender”. Exactly as you wrote them….

Any and all gender rights should and do apply to transpeople.
Any males with any gender identity should have the same protected rights.
Any females with any gender identity should have the same protected rights.

ItsFunToBeAVampire · 02/06/2023 09:08

flaffydaffy · 02/06/2023 08:57

They have the right to live as the gender they have transitioned to including things like having the right gender on their documents, access to healthcare like hormones etc and access to the spaces of their gender. The threat to that is activism from the gender critical side. In some US states some of these rights have been taken away e.g. the bathroom bill in Florida. They want to stop that kind of thing happening here.
You obviously don't agree with this cause but it is the cause they are defending.

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Why should people have the right to lie on official documentation? No one else has that right, so in fact they have more rights than others.
And access to spaces "of their gender"? Where do you suggest women that can't be in spaces with males go? Or are they acceptable collateral damage in order to allow male people to get what they want?

flaffydaffy · 02/06/2023 09:13

Brisland · 02/06/2023 09:06

They have all of those rights - based on their “gender”. Exactly as you wrote them….

Any and all gender rights should and do apply to transpeople.
Any males with any gender identity should have the same protected rights.
Any females with any gender identity should have the same protected rights.

Show quote history

Yes they currently have those rights and are defending them because they perceive those rights to be threatened. Do you agree?

seXX · 02/06/2023 09:16

flaffydaffy · 02/06/2023 08:57

They have the right to live as the gender they have transitioned to including things like having the right gender on their documents, access to healthcare like hormones etc and access to the spaces of their gender. The threat to that is activism from the gender critical side. In some US states some of these rights have been taken away e.g. the bathroom bill in Florida. They want to stop that kind of thing happening here.
You obviously don't agree with this cause but it is the cause they are defending.

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Therein lies the issue, you've confused gender with sex. Most documents show SEX and it seems ridiculous that some groups are allowed to change this based on their gender. Same with the bathroom bill, this effects single SEX facilities - no-one is stopping any trans identified person using the facilities for their own SEX.

flaffydaffy · 02/06/2023 09:20

ItsFunToBeAVampire · 02/06/2023 09:08

Why should people have the right to lie on official documentation? No one else has that right, so in fact they have more rights than others.
And access to spaces "of their gender"? Where do you suggest women that can't be in spaces with males go? Or are they acceptable collateral damage in order to allow male people to get what they want?

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Anyone has the right to change their gender on documents if they meet various criteria. Based on your response to that you would want to take that right away. So that's one right that they're defending. You've proved they're right to think it's under threat.

The spaces thing, well they have the right to access spaces of their gender, right now. You don't think they should, therefore that right is also under threat. You think their rights conflict with women's rights. But I'm responding to the suggestion that they're not campaigning for their own rights.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 02/06/2023 09:24

Thank you for your concern but my DC are well versed in VAWG and against Black people for protesting. My DC are fully aware that protests and rallies may mean a punch or soup for a white woman, but worse for a Black woman or man as I have shown them the list of victims killed for simply being Black and going to BLM protests.

The fact that it's worse for black people in some protests doesn't mean it's ok for mostly white men to hit, threaten or otherwise abuse non violent women (of all races) standing up for women's rights, does it? Teach your DC that. And it's not nice to celebrate violence against women and girls. Do you know a 15 year old girl was assaulted by a trans activist at Kellie Jay's meeting in Birmingham recently.

flaffydaffy · 02/06/2023 09:25

seXX · 02/06/2023 09:16

Therein lies the issue, you've confused gender with sex. Most documents show SEX and it seems ridiculous that some groups are allowed to change this based on their gender. Same with the bathroom bill, this effects single SEX facilities - no-one is stopping any trans identified person using the facilities for their own SEX.

Show quote history

I haven't confused them. At the moment you can change your documents based on gender. You say they should be based on sex alone and if that happened it would take away the right of people to change the documents based on gender. Same with toilets - you have the right to access whichever fits your gender and you argue that should be based on sex, which takes away the right of people to access based on gender. That's a right they are defending and you don't agree with that cause. But your question was what rights are they defending and I've answered that.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 02/06/2023 09:26

Same with toilets - you have the right to access whichever fits your gender

No, you don't. It's a right that trans activists have decided they have. It's not in the law.

flaffydaffy · 02/06/2023 09:33

Ereshkigalangcleg · 02/06/2023 09:26

Same with toilets - you have the right to access whichever fits your gender

No, you don't. It's a right that trans activists have decided they have. It's not in the law.

I don't think it's currently against the law for anyone to go inside any toilets. So making a law about that would take some rights away.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 02/06/2023 09:38

I don't think it's currently against the law for anyone to go inside any toilets.

Yes, you are correct that all men can use women's toilets. What stops that happening, is the social contract. Which should apply to all male people. What's being asked for is not a "bathroom bill", but the exemptions in the Equality Act to reflect what they were intended for, to offer safety, privacy and dignity for women and girls where there is a need for single sex facilities (and men and boys of course). And for service providers/employers to feel that they can use them for the comfort of their female customers, employees etc, without being told that they are breaking the law.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 02/06/2023 09:39

Most women, according to polls, are not comfortable with intact males in female only spaces.

Shhhquirrel · 02/06/2023 09:45

SwitchDiver · 30/05/2023 23:07

My youngest DC (thinks they’re nonbinary and wants to change their name) sent me this one:

Farewell to Aukland
(All credit to & inspired by Monty Python’s Brave Sir Robin)

Brave Posie ran away,
Bravely ran away, away.
When danger reared its ugly head, she bravely turned her tail and fled.
Yes, brave Posie turned about
And gallantly, she chickened out.
Bravely taking to her feet,
She beat a very brave tomato’d retreat,
Bravest of the brave, Posie Parker.
She was packing it in and packing it up
And sneaking away and gramming it up
And chickening out and pissing off home,
Yes, bravely she was calling one-one-one.
🐝

Wow how ‘stunning and brave’ of them to share this 🙄

flaffydaffy · 02/06/2023 09:48

Ereshkigalangcleg · 02/06/2023 09:38

I don't think it's currently against the law for anyone to go inside any toilets.

Yes, you are correct that all men can use women's toilets. What stops that happening, is the social contract. Which should apply to all male people. What's being asked for is not a "bathroom bill", but the exemptions in the Equality Act to reflect what they were intended for, to offer safety, privacy and dignity for women and girls where there is a need for single sex facilities (and men and boys of course). And for service providers/employers to feel that they can use them for the comfort of their female customers, employees etc, without being told that they are breaking the law.

So do you want a change in law or not?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 02/06/2023 09:52

I want the existing law clarified and guidelines produced. It doesn't need a law change because the exemptions already exist, including for males with GRC. I don't think males have the right to use women's spaces, because those are for women. Amused that you think it's some kind of gotcha.