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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Whistleblowers at EHRC say that Kishwer Falkner is the victim of a 'witch-hunt by trans lobby'

301 replies

IwantToRetire · 23/05/2023 01:36

Relations are said to have soured after she backed legal reforms guarding the rights of biological women in single-sex spaces such as hospital wards and toilets.

The employees at the Equality and Human Rights Commission are said to have compiled a dossier, setting out more than 40 complaints aimed at Baroness Falkner by a dozen current and former colleagues. A source said: 'People within the organisation are deeply concerned that this is a witch-hunt.

'The timing is extremely questionable. There is no doubt in my mind that this is ideologically motivated and is a way to take a scalp in revenge. ...

Baroness Falkner is said to have been left 'heartbroken' by the allegations but those close to her said her 'conscience was clear'. They branded the move by EHRC staff a 'failed coup d'etat'.

Members of the commission's board, which is headed by Baroness Falkner, have called for an overhaul of the 2010 Equality Act, which refers to gender and sex interchangeably.

They argue it should be amended to explicitly define sex as 'biological sex' to bring legal clarity in areas including sport and ensure only 'biological women' can use single-sex spaces.

Staff from the executive team were said to having been pushing to allow for gender self-identification, allowing trans people to state their chosen gender without any medical diagnosis.

A second source said: 'The executive just refused to accept the board's decision. There were strenuous efforts to reject it and it was around this time allegations were starting to be made.

'There is a very progressive, activist-inclined staff who are influenced by organisations and groups like Stonewall.'

The source said senior executives had grown accustomed to calling the shots at the commission but this changed when Baroness Falkner took over to provide 'real leadership'.

They said the complaints felt like a move to 'get her', adding: 'This process of finding fault with Kishwer is clearly political.' The dossier is said to have made claims of discrimination, including transphobia, bullying and harassment. ...

Full story (sorry!) at DM https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12112707/Whistleblowers-human-rights-commission-say-boss-facing-witch-hunt-trans-lobby.html

OP posts:
Thread gallery
15
ArabeIIaScott · 25/05/2023 11:12

Government should stand firm and immediately issue a clear statement of solidarity with Baroness Falkner.

More than that, they should also be looking into complaints and investigating if bullying, harassment and victimisation is going on, it should be dealt with.

Needmoresleep · 25/05/2023 11:14

ArabeIIaScott · 25/05/2023 11:12

Government should stand firm and immediately issue a clear statement of solidarity with Baroness Falkner.

More than that, they should also be looking into complaints and investigating if bullying, harassment and victimisation is going on, it should be dealt with.

The big question is:

Who is doing the bullying?

Datun · 25/05/2023 12:51

GailBlancheViola · 25/05/2023 09:11

The Civil Service need to be told that they are there to serve the public and the Government of the day, the clue is in the name, they are not elected, therefore they have no remit to push their own political or ideological agenda.

Yes. This seems to be very odd take.

I read yesterday that they had no intention of following a Tory led agenda.

I don't really understand politics, but surely that's their bloody job.

I believe it's fairly well known, since the days of Yes Minister, that the civil service are incredibly powerful. But when they are saying, out loud, to the public at large, that they're not going to implement the views of the democratically elected party, surely that's reason for dismissal.

ArabeIIaScott · 25/05/2023 13:21

You can't really have a civil service that is actively trying to undermine the government.

Datun · 25/05/2023 13:35

ArabeIIaScott · 25/05/2023 13:21

You can't really have a civil service that is actively trying to undermine the government.

I know, right? 😄

Slothtoes · 25/05/2023 13:57

The civil service does so many different types of work. A proportion of sexist woo-believers at the EHRC really doesnt mean the whole of the civil service.
These threads often have posters from the CS who push back when suggested policies stray from political neutrality, which is why tackling aggressive genderwoo can be a particular challenge
https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainer/professions-and-functions-civil-service

TraumatisedGooner · 25/05/2023 19:08

ScrollingLeaves · 25/05/2023 08:12

I had thought that the Tories had been quite clever. Rather than attack the ideology they had got respected people in place who used evidence and the law.

Lisa Power on the World at One framed that as being like Trump stacking the judiciary!

The Conservatives have aggressively engaged in regulatory/institutional capture. Look at all the controversy around BBC appointees. Similarly their tendency to get people to do investigations/inquiries/reviews who agree with their pre-conceived position/policy. With respect to the EHRC... Liz Truss had a 'saying the quiet part out loud' moment when describing what they were doing with these appointments.

At the end of the day, whether you agree with Falkner or not, you should be uncomfortable with the government working backwards with these appointments. They're not hiring experts and listening to them, they're listening to experts and hiring the ones that suits their position.

ArabeIIaScott · 25/05/2023 19:18

they're listening to experts

And this is a bad thing how?

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 25/05/2023 19:30

TraumatisedGooner · 25/05/2023 19:08

The Conservatives have aggressively engaged in regulatory/institutional capture. Look at all the controversy around BBC appointees. Similarly their tendency to get people to do investigations/inquiries/reviews who agree with their pre-conceived position/policy. With respect to the EHRC... Liz Truss had a 'saying the quiet part out loud' moment when describing what they were doing with these appointments.

At the end of the day, whether you agree with Falkner or not, you should be uncomfortable with the government working backwards with these appointments. They're not hiring experts and listening to them, they're listening to experts and hiring the ones that suits their position.

Show quote history

Oh hi @TraumatisedGooner !

you were going to explain the characteristics of the gender identity that all women share?

unless it's too sexist for you to say out loud?

but you're a good person no? so that definitely can't be right...

FigRollsAlly · 25/05/2023 19:34

TraumatisedGooner · 25/05/2023 19:08

The Conservatives have aggressively engaged in regulatory/institutional capture. Look at all the controversy around BBC appointees. Similarly their tendency to get people to do investigations/inquiries/reviews who agree with their pre-conceived position/policy. With respect to the EHRC... Liz Truss had a 'saying the quiet part out loud' moment when describing what they were doing with these appointments.

At the end of the day, whether you agree with Falkner or not, you should be uncomfortable with the government working backwards with these appointments. They're not hiring experts and listening to them, they're listening to experts and hiring the ones that suits their position.

Show quote history

So much DARVO!

twotruthsandalie · 25/05/2023 19:43

Marcial Boo, the CEO of EHRC is a career civil servant. He will have known what he was getting into and still taken on the role. That gives me hope.

Original poster
IwantToRetire · 25/05/2023 20:22

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the alleged bullying, in fact the issue at the moment is that one side has jettisoned the complaints procedure, by escalating it to the second stage before the first had been completed. And then leaked their side of the issue to C4 news who acted as their useful idiot.

Had a group of civil servants done this under a Labour administration, all those happily assuming the guilt of Baroness Faulkner would be screaming about right wing civil servants not doing their job / trying to under mine Labour.

There may well be tensions, because the EHRC like many other organisations, appears to have been over run by employees who put their committment to trans ideology above doing their job professionally. And now more people are prepared to stand up and say trans rights dont take precedent over other rights.

In fact the procdure breaking in the complaint process and the leaking of info to a news programme, indicates that far from having a strong case they know they dont. So they have resorted to mud slinging in the hope that some of it will stick whether deservedly or not.

It is so blatantly obvious that this is happening now, when someone in the EHRC has the integrity to say women have rights as well.

Changing the legal status of the word sex in the EA isn't anti trans, it is just confirming a biological reality to ensure that women's sex based rights aren't violated.

And as gender reassignment will still be a protected characteristic, it isn't clear how trans rights would be negatively impacted by that biological clarification.

Unless of course, it turns out to be what many of us suspect, that this scatter gun approach to making complaints is in fact a cover for those who aren't interesed in equality but want the protected characteristic of sex to be removed as they see that its existence challenges the notion that gender identification is the same as biological reality.

Which of course it isn't.

OP posts:
ResisterRex · 25/05/2023 20:39

IwantToRetire · 25/05/2023 20:22

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the alleged bullying, in fact the issue at the moment is that one side has jettisoned the complaints procedure, by escalating it to the second stage before the first had been completed. And then leaked their side of the issue to C4 news who acted as their useful idiot.

Had a group of civil servants done this under a Labour administration, all those happily assuming the guilt of Baroness Faulkner would be screaming about right wing civil servants not doing their job / trying to under mine Labour.

There may well be tensions, because the EHRC like many other organisations, appears to have been over run by employees who put their committment to trans ideology above doing their job professionally. And now more people are prepared to stand up and say trans rights dont take precedent over other rights.

In fact the procdure breaking in the complaint process and the leaking of info to a news programme, indicates that far from having a strong case they know they dont. So they have resorted to mud slinging in the hope that some of it will stick whether deservedly or not.

It is so blatantly obvious that this is happening now, when someone in the EHRC has the integrity to say women have rights as well.

Changing the legal status of the word sex in the EA isn't anti trans, it is just confirming a biological reality to ensure that women's sex based rights aren't violated.

And as gender reassignment will still be a protected characteristic, it isn't clear how trans rights would be negatively impacted by that biological clarification.

Unless of course, it turns out to be what many of us suspect, that this scatter gun approach to making complaints is in fact a cover for those who aren't interesed in equality but want the protected characteristic of sex to be removed as they see that its existence challenges the notion that gender identification is the same as biological reality.

Which of course it isn't.

Great post

TraumatisedGooner · 25/05/2023 20:41

ArabeIIaScott · 25/05/2023 19:18

they're listening to experts

And this is a bad thing how?

Is there any more obvious indication of someone arguing in bad faith than slicing four words out of a sentence to misrepresent what they were saying? The practice of selectively listening to experts that agree with preconceived policy is not a radical one -- hell it is a strategy common enough that it was lampooned in The Thick of It.

You can always find experts in any field that reject common understanding, like the tiny proportion of climate scientists who reject concerns about climate change. Listening to experts is good. Listening to just the experts who say things you like to hear is dangerous.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 25/05/2023 20:43

TraumatisedGooner · 25/05/2023 20:41

Is there any more obvious indication of someone arguing in bad faith than slicing four words out of a sentence to misrepresent what they were saying? The practice of selectively listening to experts that agree with preconceived policy is not a radical one -- hell it is a strategy common enough that it was lampooned in The Thick of It.

You can always find experts in any field that reject common understanding, like the tiny proportion of climate scientists who reject concerns about climate change. Listening to experts is good. Listening to just the experts who say things you like to hear is dangerous.

Show quote history

Oh, you're here!

you're really sure that 'cisgender' is a thing and that it's not kind to push back against it

so it will be a breeze for you to provide a few characteristics that cisgender and transgender women share

it would be great if you could explain

TraumatisedGooner · 25/05/2023 20:43

FigRollsAlly · 25/05/2023 19:34

So much DARVO!

Show quote history

So much... projection? This is literally a thread full of people dismissing bullying allegations because the allegations come from the other side.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 25/05/2023 20:44

TraumatisedGooner · 25/05/2023 20:43

So much... projection? This is literally a thread full of people dismissing bullying allegations because the allegations come from the other side.

Show quote history

yes yes @TraumatisedGooner

now, what is it that cisgender women and transgender women have in common? just list a few of the common characteristics and then e can all move on

Forwarder · 25/05/2023 21:41

Cheer up everyone. Replies to the complaints against Baroness Kishwer made me laugh anyway
https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1661057229372420097

https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1661057229372420097

ArabeIIaScott · 25/05/2023 22:02

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 25/05/2023 20:44

yes yes @TraumatisedGooner

now, what is it that cisgender women and transgender women have in common? just list a few of the common characteristics and then e can all move on

Show quote history

That would be good to hear.

ResisterRex · 25/05/2023 22:29

This pulls no punches:

The Times view on Baroness Falkner: Hit Job

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/2c515ea0-fb34-11ed-bc7a-1444acf8fa38?shareToken=6a29fcd9a006fc3f85e2d65bf8201398

"... the unmistakable impression is of ideologues seeking to punish a public servant for doing her job, which is not to parrot faddish mantras on gender but to ensure that equalities law in this country respects the rights of all. For employees of a publicly-funded watchdog to behave in such a way is indefensible.
...
Too many women who have taken the same stand have found themselves on the receiving end of similar treatment...Ministers should show their solidarity and adopt her recommendations for changing the law as soon as possible. The era of intimidation by the extreme trans lobby must end."

Needmoresleep · 25/05/2023 22:34

Cass is a very respected paediatrician. Falkner was first a LibDem and then sat as a cross bench Peer. Neither are obvious Tory stool pigeons. They appear to be competent and credible people hired to important jobs.

Flinging insults just because you hold a fixed position is weak. Surely Kalkner is simply asking for the law to be clarified to include the word “biological”. Necessary because of all the Stonewall inspired messing around with language.

ArabeIIaScott · 25/05/2023 22:35

Oh, Times Leader. Excellent.

The era of intimidation by the extreme trans lobby must end.

Yes.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 25/05/2023 22:37

ArabeIIaScott · 25/05/2023 22:35

Oh, Times Leader. Excellent.

The era of intimidation by the extreme trans lobby must end.

Yes.

it's a corker

Their legitimate concerns on single sex spaces that are so important to their sense of safety and wellbeing have been not only dismissed but met with poisonous vitriol. If anyone in Britain should know better than to oppose this aim, it is the staff of its equalities watchdog

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 25/05/2023 22:39

ArabeIIaScott · 25/05/2023 22:02

That would be good to hear.

Show quote history

I'll repeat a point I made on a now deleted thread

if I was unable to explain a concept that was fundamental to my belief system I probably wouldn't go on the internet and accuse people who didn't share my belief system of being bigots

any thoughts on that @TraumatisedGooner ? since we're apparently not going to get your thoughts on the characteristics of the gender identity that cisgender and transgender women share

SinnerBoy · 25/05/2023 22:41

TraumatisedGooner

Listening to experts is good. Listening to just the experts who say things you like to hear is dangerous.

I agree, yet that is precisely what you did, when you said that the Commission shouldn't be listening to actual experts, but instead, the self-appointed ones who agree with your standpoint.

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