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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Female cyclists in podium no-show after being beaten by male cyclist

424 replies

EdgeOfACoin · 22/05/2023 06:47

https://www.outkick.com/cyclists-no-show-post-race-podium-after-biological-male-finishes-1st-in-female-race/

This was in a Colorado - Utah race a couple of days ago. Apologies if there's already a thread. I didn't see one.

Interestingly, this was in the race for cyclists aged 40-49. I wonder if older athletes are less likely to stand for this nonsense. Anyway, good for them. I hope this spreads to younger cyclists and other sports.

Cyclists No Show Post-Race Podium After Biological Male Finishes 1st In Female Race

Trans cyclist Lesley Mumford proudly posted an Instagram photo standing atop the first-place podium. But he was all alone.

https://www.outkick.com/cyclists-no-show-post-race-podium-after-biological-male-finishes-1st-in-female-race

OP posts:
Thread gallery
21
Ereshkigalangcleg · 24/05/2023 10:26

Italic fail.

Helleofabore · 24/05/2023 10:27

MummaMaggoth · 24/05/2023 10:08

Transitioning changes sex characteristics, oestrogen lowers performance in general.

So, no? You have no studies to prove your assertion?

Because even Harper, who is a trans sports researcher disagrees that male advantage is reduced enough to even suggest that males should compete in a female event. Harper is still desperately attempting to find a way to prove this is not so. However, their current study went from having four subjects to just one - Bridges. And we all know that Bridges is determined, supported by their heavily invested mother who is an ex-MNer, to get to race with the female cyclists.

So, I doubt any ‘expert’ will consider a study of one subject, who has the goal to make the study show what they want, as being credible at all.

We are however, laughing at your twists and pivots.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 24/05/2023 10:27

It does actually.

It quite clearly doesn't, but I don't think anyone is taking your posts all that seriously.

MummaMaggoth · 24/05/2023 10:28

SinnerBoy · 24/05/2023 10:13

Except social and cultural science exists and I don't see the point in arguing with someone who doesn't know that.

Who has said here that social sciences do not exist? I can't see anything which says that.

Also, you have made a bold claim, regarding scientific consensus and have been asked to provide some evidence. You seem to be highly confident in that and assured of your rectitude.

Surely, if that's the case, you should be able to provide some links to evidence, which supports your assertions?

The way these things work is that you should do that and not say "Google it!"

Nah stop making me work for you and Google it sheesh. I'm not your researcher.

MummaMaggoth · 24/05/2023 10:28

This reply has been deleted

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 24/05/2023 10:28

Lol if you say so lol

Helleofabore · 24/05/2023 10:29

MummaMaggoth · 24/05/2023 10:14

I'm glad they changed that, otherwise its like implying a willy makes you run faster or whatever, which is clearly silly.

But the science shows that having a willy DOES make you faster in comparison to a female of the same fitness standard .

It would be absurd to deny this. Or are you going to try sophistry to deny it.

Helleofabore · 24/05/2023 10:32

MummaMaggoth · 24/05/2023 10:28

Nah stop making me work for you and Google it sheesh. I'm not your researcher.

So no studies? You are not going to post the evidence which you believe is convincing?

oh well.

sanluca · 24/05/2023 10:35

MummaMammoth, anything to say about the definition of woman in regard to swimming?

Shall we then continue with this for all sports? As you nor anybody else has provided a definition of woman in regard to sports that has any scientific backing, clear definitions and procedures around disputes.

sanluca · 24/05/2023 10:36

Sorry, MummaMaggoth, I got your username wrong. I apologise

DdraigGoch · 24/05/2023 10:37

MummaMaggoth · 24/05/2023 08:13

Nope I double checked they're a trans woman. Don't feel bad for being mistaken. You don't have to be mad now. Trans women are women. Peace and love.

And transcats are mushrooms.

Yeah, I can write nonsense too...

NotHavingIt · 24/05/2023 10:42

MummaMaggoth · 24/05/2023 10:20

No, that's my evidence for consensus. You're all still trying to argue that there either isn't one at all or that it is opposed to transition but the scientific consensus on people who are trans is that transitioning is the best treatment.

What we are doing is pointing out that your imagined consensus is a carefully selected one that is common amongst people who favour gender identity theory.

NotHavingIt · 24/05/2023 10:44

This reply has been deleted

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And you are saying this with a straight face?

When logic and all else fails, then simply call people "hateful bigots" and see if that works. Lol!

Helleofabore · 24/05/2023 10:44

MummaMaggoth · 24/05/2023 10:23

This is a nice way to try to ban someone you disagree with but I'm just stating facts. The reason my friend transitioned is because she sought it and it was provided because in this country it is the treatment for gender dysphoria. Saying scientists oppose me because some do is ignoring the majority who agree and the evidence of that majority is trans people who hade transitioned, of whom I know many.

And this readers is someone now claiming victimhood to garner an emotional response.

No one is trying to ‘ban’ this poster. On the contrary, we are pointing out the misinformation and the tactics that they are using to convince readers that a) sports have been and in the future will continue to be segregated by sex and not gender. And b) that males become female somehow. It seems in this instance through a drug regimen.

We are here ready to engage in the science and this poster has now switched to emotional manipulation. By claiming, falsely, that anyone wishes them to be banned. Plus by bringing in their friend.

We all want to engage with this particular poster who claims they have the science. We want to see it and discuss it with them. We don’t want them to disappear, we want an actual discussion. Not just blind and empty assurances and misinformation.

Still no science shown. Yet this poster keeps using cognitive distortions to convince people. If the science was convincing, they would post it. When I get to my desktop, I will post links to all the studies so far so those reading along can see for themselves that the science has been clear.

It is always important that people read for themselves.

It is always important for misinformation to be pointed out.

NotHavingIt · 24/05/2023 10:45

MummaMaggoth · 24/05/2023 10:28

Nah stop making me work for you and Google it sheesh. I'm not your researcher.

You don't even do your own research, that is clear. You simply repeat what you've been told in the sorts of circles in which you move.

DdraigGoch · 24/05/2023 10:47

MummaMaggoth · 24/05/2023 09:31

You don't know what scientific consensus is?

You shouldn't be taking about these things.

Research what it means and then you will be able to see that, yes, SCIENCE SAYS YOU CAN CHANGE GENDER. That's why scientists are the ones providing gender affirming care. You don't have science on your side. Trans people are as valid as climate change is real people just like to ignore consensus, or don't know what it is and how valuable it is.

"Gender" has nothing to do with science. It's a social construct.

ProfessorFlitwick · 24/05/2023 10:59

I read a quote from a female athlete the other day (can't remember her name now) she said "in sport, it's your body that's competing, not your mind". Regardless of how you feel about someone's inner feeling about their gender, you can't ignore the actual physical body in front of you when it comes to sport, and how unfair it is for male bodies to compete against female bodies. Separate sex categories were created because of the differences in physical ability between the sexes, not because of differences in their minds/personal identities!

DdraigGoch · 24/05/2023 11:02

sanluca · 24/05/2023 10:04

I'll put in the swimming ones as I happen to know them

Definition of woman: anyone not gone through or going through male puberty
Categories of woman and non woman: women are humans who have not gone through or are going through male puberty, age 12 and upwards. Other category is men: humans 12 onwards who have gone or are going through male puberty.
Characteristics of woman: no evidence of male puberty
How to measure characteristics: For most people sex observed at birth. For disputed sex, swimmer must prove no male puberty is taking or has taken place.

I find it quite offensive women are now being classified by the lack of male puberty, but this is what you get when governments screw around with womens rights

You just know that dictatorships after a few medals will be picking out young boys to medicate so that they can compete as "women" in a few years. It'll be just like the East German doping scandal.

PorcelinaV · 24/05/2023 11:05

MummaMaggoth · 24/05/2023 10:20

No, that's my evidence for consensus. You're all still trying to argue that there either isn't one at all or that it is opposed to transition but the scientific consensus on people who are trans is that transitioning is the best treatment.

You're making a claim about transitioning.

You're also making the claim:

"Um, facts aren't "trolling". Trans women are women. Fact. Science backed fact."

And that's an obvious logical fallacy, as it doesn't follow from the stuff about transitioning, even if you were correct about it.

DdraigGoch · 24/05/2023 11:05

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ChateauMargaux · 24/05/2023 11:05

MummaMaggoth · 24/05/2023 10:11

Except you're wrong that's why trans people can and have competed in sports for decades. They've been allowed in the Olympics for ages. They don't even do well.

The history of trans participation in Olympic Sports is here ..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_people_in_sports#Notable_trans_athletes.

'Since the mid-twentieth century, sports institutions have responded to the participation of transgender women and women suspected to be transgender, male, or intersex by adding eligibility requirements to women's sports variously determined by physical examination, sex chromosomes, and sex hormones.[18] Proponents of such regulations regard them as necessary to ensure fair competition and women's safety.[16][17][19]' TLDR: Men not permitted in the female category..

In 2003, a committee convened by the International Olympic Committee (IOC) Medical Commission drew up new guidelines for participating athletes who had undergone gender reassignment. The report listed three conditions for participation. First, athletes must have undergone sex reassignment surgery, including changes in the external genitalia and gonadectomy. Second, athletes must show legal recognition of their gender. Third, athletes must have undergone hormone therapy for an appropriate time before participation, with two years being the suggested time.[30]
It was not until 2004 that the IOC allowed transgender athletes to participate in the Olympic Games.[. TLDR: 2003 - 5 Olympic Games ago, surgery, legal recognition and hormone therapy required

'In 2015, the IOC modified these guidelines ......require only that trans woman athletes declare their gender and not change that assertion for four years, as well as demonstrate a testosterone level of less than 10 nanomoles per liter for at least one year prior to competition and throughout the period of eligibility. .... These guidelines were in effect for the 2016 Rio Olympics, although no openly transgender athletes competed. TLDR: 2015 Testosterone suppression required.

2021 was the controversial games of Laura Hubbard. Two non binary athletes, female sex, also competed. TLDR: 2021 - This is the first time that openly trans athletes have competed in the Olympics.

In November 2021 the IOC issued a non-legally binding framework that focuses on ten principles of inclusion: "prevention of harm, non-discrimination, fairness, no presumption of advantage, evidence-based approach, primacy of health and bodily autonomy, stakeholder-centered approach, right to privacy and periodic reviews". TLDR This framework is more open to the idea of trans participation in opposite sex competition but passes responsibility to the individual sporting bodies to determine what is defined as an 'unfair advantage'.

Starting from 31 March 2023 all male-to-female transgender athletes who have been through male puberty were excluded from female World Rankings competitions. World Athletics created these rules as a way to ensure fair competition in the women's category. TLDR: World Athletics responded with the answer that the line is drawn at male puberty.

All eyes on 2024!!

Transgender people in sports - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_people_in_sports#Notable_trans_athletes

maranella · 24/05/2023 11:09

Good for them. Women need to make a point somehow.

In all honesty, I think the only way to protest properly though is to refuse to compete against biological males. In the article, it points out that there was a non-binary category, but this cheat decided he'd rather compete against the women. I wonder why?

SinnerBoy · 24/05/2023 11:25

Well yeah because I'm right.

I'm afraid that's the exact opposite of what you are. I must add that I'm not going to Google for something non-existent; you've made a confident claim, so you surely know something?

How else could you have come to your conclusions? Surely you want to support what you're saying, by means of evidence to show that you are.

Misstache · 24/05/2023 11:29

Lmmaaooo this thread is mental.

but why are we even discussing dysphoria and transition? Didn’t we all just educate ourselves from that Guardian op Ed this weekend that transitioning imposes elitist hierarchies and racist Western binaries upon winged eyeliner and boobs looking great in tank tops? MummaMaggoth needs to stop validating racist fatphobic anti Semitic medicalized pathological body standards of transition! You clap do clap not clap need clap to clap have clap dysphoria clap to clap be clap Trans!

Kucinghitam · 24/05/2023 11:31

Dear undecided lurkers: I do hope you are seeing what The Right Side of History has to offer, and drawing your own conclusions.

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