Anyone watching Panorama at the moment?

[endofthelinefinally]

It is about ADHD rapid online diagnosis and very expensive drugs for all.

I wonder if anyone will join the dots and hear the bells and klaxons...

What do you mean by “join the dots” and “Bells and Klaxons”?

Agree - what are you trying to insinuate here?

Yes, I did watch it. What did you think of it?

I imagine OP is referring to similar private doctors handing out poorly substantiated diagnoses of Gender Dysphoria and profiting from the meds they sell as a result.

I read the article this morning. This will most likely happen with any diagnosis reduced to a checklist with money exchanging hands. Gender dysphoria won't be exempt.

Yes that is exactly what I meant. I got distracted just after I posted and didn't come back to thread.
It is ironic that BBC are so perceptive about this ADHD racket and the supply of dangerous drugs, yet so wilfully blind to exactly the same scenario with teenagers, online diagnosis and dangerous drugs.
It is so obvious.

Yep op, can definitely see the parallels.

OP, I thought exactly the same when I heard about the story on R4 this morning. Missed Panorama tonight but will try to watch tomorrow.
Money can be a strong motivator for treatments…

Yet, what about those people in desperate need of a diagnosis and medication, where the NHS waiting list is 4 years? Private diagnoses are expensive and you’re really not going to pay for one unless you’re really very sure.

I personally think it was a poor biased piece of journalism focused on bashing the ND community on the basis of everyone wants a label as an excuse mentality and couldn’t possibly actually have a problem/will pay to explain away them being stupid/lazy/not trying hard enough.

'Private diagnoses are expensive and you’re really not going to pay for one unless you’re really very sure.'

Bullshit

It's sympathetic to people with ADHD. People with ADHD wouldn't want there to be over-diagnosis or over-treatment in others.

It's important to understand if there are be financial incentives to diagnose and treat we are right to be cautious

It's tough enough being neurodiverse without this bullshit. Enough people question the diagnosis anyway. Even NHS ones.

It would be easy to blame the investigators for casting doubt on diagnoses..Even if the fault lay elsewhere. (Not watched)

However, yeah you are right about the lack of insight into the money train of gd diagnosis.

Reporting the truth isn't of itself a bashing of any community. Reporting truth when it suits and ignoring it when it suits is when bias becomes involved. You have to prove this is what's happened here and that it is consistent across multiple articles... it is very difficult to make this statement on just one article.

So no this isn't a piece bashing the ND community, making their lives harder. If anything it should help those who feel neurodiverse to know where the trusted sources of help could be.

When I go to the doctor or mechanic or to any expert really, I'm usually "really, very sure" and tests prove that I'm often wrong.
You can't buy what turns out to be a sure fire diagnosis just because you really, really think you have the thing...

And I definitely did not come away with the impression that anyone was lazy.... just that some were greedy.

I watched the episode and I was horrified by how people are exploited. For a very large sum, people pay to do what is basically one of those online quizzes without any chance to elaborate. Then they pay a hefty amount for a private prescription for a serious drug that they might not actually need without proper consultation. That’s dangerous.

I’ve looked at ADHD symptoms and I’d say most people have quite a few of them (including myself), but they didn’t affect my grades at school and they don’t ruin my life everyday. I’m not sure why there’s this desperation for a label (unless it’s a child and their symptoms are negatively affecting their schooling and relationships). There are also other conditions that can seem like ADHD. Private diagnosis over Zoom or even in person really quick consultations without a full detailed evaluation should be banned.

The USA were quick to hand out ADHD diagnosis years ago, and it's not surprising when you see how much money the doctors and drug companies make from it. Ritalin and Adderall are the drug of choice for most young adults there. I'm always cynical when medication is quick to be suggested

If it's not having a significant impact on your life then it's not ADHD.

Why would people want a diagnosis?

Because it's a serious condition, that will often have an impact on people as adults as well as when they were children. It can also often contribute to people suffering other mental health conditions like anxiety and depression.

I haven't seen the documentary, but my understanding is that the journalist faked all the symptoms. I have ADHD (diagnosed via the NHS), and DH is colour blind. We were both diagnosed on the basis of self-reported symptoms with another person who knew us also giving further evidence of those symptoms. How else are people supposed to get diagnosed?

I'm really angry about this, tbh. Having had a lifetime of being told I'm just lazy and lying about my experiences to make excuses, this just looks like another iteration of the same thing.

I have seen it and no, he didn't fake anything. He answered truthfully, but the questions were superficial and not wide-ranging enough. He had a full assessment from an NHS consultant who told him he didn't have ADHD and he had three brief online assessments from private providers who all told him he did. His point was that they took the money and told him what he wanted to hear. They didn't consider any differential diagnoses. The programme was not saying nobody has ADHD. The message was that NHS waiting lists are far too long and people desperate for help with their mental health are being rooked. And yes, I saw the parallels with gender clinics. See also: huge recent increase in young people claiming to have Tourette's and crowding out genuine cases who need assessment and support. Tiktok a factor there too. Mental health issues are real and very prevalent, but self-diagnosis and access to very powerful and possibly inappropriate drugs isn't the answer.

But what is the financial incentive for the person seeking the diagnosis? there is none as they are paying out. in my experience people don’t tend to shell out a load of money if they are not sure and the diagnosis is something that is going to assist them through medication for example. My child is autistic and it’s hard enough having a nd child, I imagine it’s hard being an undiagnosed nd adult and stuff like this just makes it even harder.

The financial incentive is on the part of the prescriber. Who in this case is preying on people seeking the diagnosis.

@Somanycats why bullshit? NHS waiting lists are 4 years for a diagnosis and ADHD massively impacts a persons life, people loose jobs and relationships because of it.

I don’t think it’s bullshit to seek a diagnosis and support/medication through private means.

It really wasn’t sympathetic, it perpetuated the myth ADHD is fake and everyone is a little bit ADHD blah blah blah.

The report didn’t touch at all on the actual impact of ADHD on a persons daily life and how damaging undiagnosed ADHD is.

I absolutely agree - I have a 6 year old adopted son with ADHD and I’m currently waiting on a diagnosis in my fifties.

I wouldn’t wish ADHD on anyone - issues that now seem to be linked to my suspected ADHD pushed me very close to taking my own life some years back.

The comments I read on news sites yesterday ( why the f*ck I look at the DM is beyond me - the majority of posters are vile, ignorant individuals) really got to me - the level of ignorance and lack of empathy is both disturbing and depressing.

People are turning to private assessment because the NHS waiting lists are years behind

Why to people feel the need to make vile, baseless comments on subjects they no NOTHING about?!?

Walk a mile in someone’s shoes before judging and consider whether you have any actual knowledge of the situation.

@Somanycats BS why?

I suspect I have ADHD. My life has been severely impacted by symptoms that correlate with it. My bother and my nephew both have a diagnosis from young age and I suspect my mother has always had it.

My understanding is that women were rarely diagnosed in the past because they do not cluster around the mean of symptoms that men and boys often do and so were overlooked.

I went to my NHS doctor to say I would like an evaluation. I was told it was not possible for adults to be assessed on the NHS unless I was in a mental health unit for another problem, like depression say (London borough)

I phoned up a leading mental health charity and they confirmed this but sign posted me to charities for advice.

I looked at the price it costs for a private consultation at the time it was £700 - £1,200

I found one for £500

I had to stop and consider spending that money which was huge for me. I have severe chronic allergies and have been spending my money on that and then I was going to swallow it, but the pandemic started and all my savings went on normal life as I couldn't work.

So I couldn't afford it and I still can't. I believe I have it, and have had it all my life but have to carry on suffering with a lower quality of life and struggling at work to not make mistakes and struggling to keep everyday normal stuff going.

In the past I've been called lazy (I'm religious and I even prayed whilst crying, not to be lazy because I couldn't understand why I'm not motivated to do things like other people, the effort is huge. It's so hard) been told I'm 'Away with the fairies' for my chronic inattention. Get asked repeatedly 'if anyone is home' my family repeatedly ask me if I heard them whilst talking because I've gone off into space, and I have learned to pretend I've been listening after realising I've zoned out even on MN I sometimes write half a thread then need to give up.

My employer recorded a message for me yesterday presumably about something really important to the business that she has mentioned before- I'm trying to work out how I'm going to find out what it is whilst pretending I remember. I must of zoned out or not registered it and I have chronic serious avoidance and constant anxiety and double check everything I do for fear of the mistakes. I still make them.

I will say it's just like anxiety. Many people and celebrities started saying they suffer with anxiety, when it was intermittent normal anxiety everyone has, leaving true sufferers of chronic anxiety to feel their condition was now trivialised.

Yes big pharma is corrupt and exploits everything to make money, but this does harm to genuine sufferers who on basis of programs like this (and I haven't seen it but it appears it was somewhat shallow in its analysis) will be treated with scepticism.

Private treatment requires saving for many people, particularly if they don't have insurance, and so you would feel you meet the criteria for this thing even if it later turns out you don't.

Please stop perpetuating the myth we’re all a bit ADHD!

I did really well at school and got a degree, hold down a job, have numerous professional qualifications etc but I do have ADHD and so I not deserve my diagnosis as an adult? At what age do you think people shouldn’t be diagnosed? 16, 18, 21?

Every day my life is a struggle, always has and always will be, but doesn’t mean I can’t succeed professionally or personally so do I not deserve support and medication? Or am I too old now I’m in my 30s?

It wasn’t a great documentary. It didn’t even really talk about what ADHD is or how it presents.

He told the NHS consultant - someone concerned about ADHD overdiagnosis - that he was making a documentary about ADHD overdiagnosis and didn’t think he had ADHD. He obviously didn’t share this with the private providers. Not exactly a controlled experiment.

ADHD is significantly underdiagnosed and undertreated in the UK.