Anyone watching Panorama at the moment?

[endofthelinefinally]

It is about ADHD rapid online diagnosis and very expensive drugs for all.

I wonder if anyone will join the dots and hear the bells and klaxons...

I’ve come on here because I read the thread after being up since silly o’clock dealing with a child’s adhd related explosions and the red mist enshrouded me

i should stop looking at MN, as it be honest it makes me despair at the lack of empathy in our society and want to throat punch someone…

You know I realise the Trans issue is of huge importance, I truly do of course. But linking every isolated case of medical ineptitude to the medical situation concerning the self I.D. of Trans people is a bit much.

Particularly where it concerns a condition where the EXISTING situation is that women were historically overlooked for diagnosis and frequently have to struggle against sexist views of emotional instability in the health profession before they are listened to. Now as a result of this, the likelihood is that there is, if anything, a large amount of underdiagnosis for ADHD in particular. This against the reality of no real or consistent working provision for basic assessment in the NHS.

There is also another case to say that as a result of being dismissed, women have been inappropriately and excessively treated with anti-depressants. Now that's a scandal I'd have liked the program to explore. Sexism in the current health system and how that leads to missed diagnosis and poorer outcomes both physically, mentally and financially for women leading to reliance on profit driven clinics. But no.

There is nothing new about the over use of drugs in medicine or exploitation of vulnerable groups by big pharma. But the NHS isn't immune to that either.

You articulated this far more succinctly than I ever could - thank you

Doctor’s are just the gatekeepers to treatment. Most people that I have encountered who are going through adult diagnoses have researched, discussed and explored so widely that the assessment basically becomes the rubber stamp. After all our years (over 50 years in my case) suddenly things start to make sense and there is a little hope at least that I can make my remaining time on earth better.

I’ve struggled all my life - ADHD never entered my thoughts or diagnosis. I avoided treatment and discussing my issues for over 25 years because of a horrible experience with NHS and MH in my twenties. My adopted child had ADHD and as I learnt about it (very very thoroughly) to help me understand his needs that cogs began to turn.

it was only someone else that I was discussing child’s ADHD with suggesting that maybe I should look at it that for myself.

My referral has been accepted (in a county where 90% are rejected at this stage due to a crippling lack of resources) I am now in a, at least 3 year, waiting list. I’ve looked at Private but there is a lack of acceptance of care by NHS beyond that in this area.

i do want a ‘label’ as I want to understand what the f* is wrong with me and hopefully a framework that will help me to stop hating myself for not understanding why I could never cope with school, college, jobs, relationships, basic everyday stuff

The private route is not without it’s flaws, but the NHS is failing many of us with adult MH and neurodivergent issues and for some it’s their only choice - good luck to them.

the programme was myopic and didn’t give enough credence to the positives of an nhs alternative. I also felt the programme just reenforced people’s prejudices and ignorance about ADHD.

People with ADHD and parents of children really do have enough in their plates without this. Within half an hour of the BBC story going on I was forwarded it by my mother as validation of her views - ADHD (she would get in sooo well with some of the vipers in this nest….)

Spot on - it did nothing for people with ADHD

The parallel is the fact that people with genuine neuropsychological/-psychiatric distress are largely unable to access careful diagnosis and responsible treatment via the NHS, and as a result are vulnerable to inaccurate diagnosis and potentially dangerously inappropriate treatment via unscrupulous private providers who have a clear financial conflict of interests which seems to override responsible clinical decision-making.

linking every isolated case of medical ineptitude to the medical situation concerning the self I.D. of Trans people is a bit much.

But it's not just an isolated case of medical ineptitude? There was at least an implication in the programme that this was a systematic problem, as it was with the Tavistock and as it is with the people now flocking to the private gender clinics who have stepped in where the NHS has failed. The Tavistock was whistleblown by people who made connections with earlier medical scandals. You can join the dots both ways.

i do want a ‘label’ as I want to understand what the f is wrong with me and hopefully a framework that will help me to stop hating myself for not understanding why I could never cope with school, college, jobs, relationships, basic everyday stuff

Sure, it makes sense to want a diagnosis. I sometimes see people here who say they think they might have ADHD but I think "looks like ASC to me" though of course I am not a professional, we can't diagnose by internet and I could easily be wrong. That's what the professionals are for, or they should be. And if I was considering paying for a diagnosis I would want a proper differential diagnosis for all the usual suspects - which hopefully the NHS will do and that is part of the reason for the long wait - and not just an online ticklist for ADHD.

But why would someone want an adhd diagnosis if they weren’t reasonably sure they had adhd, there is no advantage to the patient at all in getting a diagnosis for sone thing they don’t have

When panorama start doing a documentary on the deliberate underdiagnoses of needs so the NHS doesn't have to pay I'll start listening.

I can walk into pretty much any class room and spot between 1-4 (depending on set/school) children with undiagnosed needs.

The scandal isn't the couple who might be diagnosed that don't have it....

It's the hundreds that noone is doing anything about

Other people's posts aren't necessarily about you or your situation, so you don't need to be defensive.

I'll continue to make statements which I have observed to be true, and it has been widely noted how many people are self diagnosing various maladies via on-line forums. I also stand by the statment that many people now seem to feel a need to have a label or a name for their particular brand of personal suffering. And as we know there is an ever expanding menu of 'gender identities' from which to choose.

Again, this is not directed at you - but I find that there is a trend ( written about quite extensively) to an incredibly fragility being encouraged, or nurtured, in people, rather than a developing emotional resilience - which was always the end goal of counselling or therapy. I've read recently of the ways in which psychotherapy, for example, has been infiltrated by social justice theories.

These theories of the self tend to encourage the individual to identify their difficulties via a sense of victimhood in relation to some sort of oppresive system/oppressive relationship. The problem with that is that the individual ultimately becomes even more fragile and they fail to take reponsibility for their own responses and patterns of behaviour; and this perception of a structure/relationship of oppression becomes almost an integral part of their psychic structure.

Sorry, I’ll take ‘things that aren’t true’ for £100 please Bob

if you had a ADHD connection I’m guessing you would have more awareness of the issues involved in getting help and why private can be a useful route for some and a bit more empathy about why people were upset with the program (re-enforcing adhd stereotypical prejudices etc)

Spot on 👍🏻

In totally centring yourself and your own experiences you have lost sight of the fact that neither this thread, nor the programme,is/ was about you, or about people with ADHD.

@Nily4567 there are those that understand and then there are those that think you should just “buck up and smile” or “try a little harder” and woe betide anyone having a different perspective to them on this, gender or any other topic.

And there are those that tend to think that it might not be wise to make every single post on a thread about yourself ( especially when they 're not) and then have the nerve to talk about empathy and understanding without any hint of irony.

Yet you say you will continue to make statements which you observe to be true? So are we are are we not allowed to bring a personal perspective to the thread?

To be totally honest, knowing what I know about ADHD and then seeing people's reactions to this programme has really made me question the narrative that the trans clinics are aggressively overdiagnosing and rushing people in to treatment.

But I think what's clear across the board is that a lot of people are struggling with mental health and whether the problem is overdiagnosis or underdiagnosis it's obvious that there is a need for more support generally.

You inter-jected yourself into my response to someone' else's post. You don't own or control other people's perceptions or responses. The thread is not about you, nor about people with ADHD.

Yes, bring your perspective, but to try to be aware of the contexts and situations that others are discussing; and be aware of other people's rights to have a discussion or make points without it all being about how misunderstood you feel, or how unempathic you think people are.

I've re-read through all of your posts and in most of them you show no awareness or sensitivity to context. Perhaps that is a thing when you have ADHD?

It's not a question of over diagnosing or under diagnosing. This is a question of charlatans masquerading as medical professionals! Or at the very least medical professionals forgetting they have an ethical standard to uphold.

We all want to know what is wrong with us if something is wrong. But having that certainty then thrown into doubt because you are not sure you were purposely diagnosed is a travesty! It is akin to torture. They should never have been allowed to operate without more scrutiny!

This whole thing should throw the entire private practice into disrepute and make them sit up and do better .

This has very little to do with those being diagnosed. If anything adhd sufferers should hold these private practices even more to account to ensure they are being well cared for and not just told whatever will part them from their money.

I think you are right about the proliferation of mental health issues. It is certainly a topical issue, and no, there is not enough quality support; but I also think that people are self diagnosing a lot via the internet - and that too is a contemporary issue in, and of, itself. The impact of social media and digital culture generally on people's mental health.

But why would someone want an adhd diagnosis if they weren’t reasonably sure they had adhd, there is no advantage to the patient at all in getting a diagnosis for sone thing they don’t have

Uh, because they can get prescribed speed.

I'm in the US and it's a little secret that if you push for a diagnosis of ADHD, you can get amphetamine prescriptions, something which helps ANYONE be more efficient and get shit done.

The problem is these meds are addictive. I'm not a medical professional nor a neuroscientist so I can not speak to what is it or is not ADHD (or even if it should be considered a pathology) but I do know that high school students buy a lot of Adderall during exam times.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jan/29/adderall-shortage-us-adhd-ritalin-drugs

I posted this on another thread. What happened in the US was pretty awful. Apparently Adderrall isn't prescribed in the UK though, but it's addictive and gives you a high if you don't actually have adhd. In that case I can see why private clinics in the US wanted to prescribe it (druggie customers paying £££). Prescription painkillers all over again.

Thank God we at least have oversight over that drug. More oversight needed over these clinics and pharmacies though.

But why would someone want an adhd diagnosis if they weren’t reasonably sure they had adhd, there is no advantage to the patient at all in getting a diagnosis for sone thing they don’t have

Being "reasonably sure" is not the same is being right. People do get this wrong, other neurodiversitiesand other issues can look like ADHD but should be treated very differently. People want help, they want a diagnosis of "something^, and maybe they don't know all the alternatives.

It's not a coincidence that this is an ADHD clinic and not an ASC clinic. There are private diagnoses for both, but there is no a standard medication pathway for ASC whereas ADHD diagnoses open the door to long term medication and the private clinic benefits mightily from that pathway.

Therapy and social/life skills training are very expensive to run and much less profitable to a private clinic than medication. For the NHS medication is cheaper at least in the short term. The costs of poor prescription practice only appear in the long run and they're not borne by the private providers - in fact putting mistakes right would be an extra income stream for them.

knowing what I know about ADHD and then seeing people's reactions to this programme has really made me question the narrative that the trans clinics are aggressively overdiagnosing and rushing people in to treatment.

Does it? That is a pity because children with neurodiversities are more vulnerable than most to gender identity problems. Keep your eye on the facts not the "narrative". Especially for gender it's not just about clinics, not all "support" is good support, and the wrong treatment can be worse than none.

I’m not sure you can argue it’s not a thread about ADHD, that was literally the condition the guy was trying to be diagnosed with.

You’re absolutely right that no one owns others perceptions/responses. But there have been some pretty nasty posts implying some untruths about ADHD, questioning/rejecting the need for diagnosis in adulthood and questioning the medications used. On this basis I do think that some (not all) posters need to empathetic and understand the lives experiences of those with ADHD or who are a parent/carer for a person with ADHD and how the portrayal in the report makes those people feel.

I’m not really sure how I’ve missed context in this thread, willfully or otherwise. I’ve referred back to my diagnosis twice in the context of dispelling the over used trope that everyone is a little adhd. I just don’t believe this report was good journalism or beneficial in anyway.

This whole thread has been focused on nullifying diagnoses obtained privately for adults, with one poster even going as far as to imply those seeking a diagnosis could have munchausens.

One thing I would be interested in seeing some
evidence for is the financial breakdown around private prescriptions, how much is the doctor paid, how much the pharmacy fees are and what the actual cost of the medication is.

Its £9 something for an NHS prescription and a private prescription is about £97 if I recall correctly (including cost of medication).

There seems to be some implying on this thread that private prescriptions are money making schemes, Vyvanse (Elvanse in the UK) is about $350 per month (£280)