Anyone watching Panorama at the moment?

[endofthelinefinally]

It is about ADHD rapid online diagnosis and very expensive drugs for all.

I wonder if anyone will join the dots and hear the bells and klaxons...

The point, your head, went over by a country mile - but well done, maximum smug & pious achieved..😒

🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻
This. All. Of. This.

Why are you all moaning about people getting a diagnosis they have apparently paid for, and getting meds, they don't need?
What difference does it make to you? Don't pretend you care about vulnerable people while saying 'we're all a bit'.

I could not give less of a crap of Sheila down the road is diagnosed and medicated. Makes not a bit of difference to me and my life.

What I do give a crap about is ableist TV shows, reporting and threads running rampant with uneducated comments, that leave the vulnerable screaming that this is not helping.

And as an aside, the show was bullshit and biased. One side was told about him being a journalist, the other wasn't.

Keep in my mind that the BBC decided to air this during Mental Health Awareness week….you would have thought at least one of the production team would have realised how inappropriate that was (I know that I’m give the BBC way too much credit here…)

Bravo!

Yes, well, the problem being that I know absolutely no facts about the gender clinics. Only a narrative that has been explained about them, which I was mostly taking at face value. But I don't think that's the right thing to do any more.

Absolutely 👍🏻

I have to agree and it’s trotting out the old ADHD and social media tropes.

Then there is the equating it with clinics dealing with gender is a tad discomforting.

I think the problem is that there are multiple things here that are all true simultaneously.

1. It is hard to get a a diagnosis on the NHS - waiting times are woeful.

1. It can be easy to get a diagnosis privately - some providers are just in it for the money.

1. Some people have no diagnosis (e.g. due to 1 above) but through research diagnose themselves correctly.

1. Some people incorrectly diagnose themselves with various conditions as labels currently have cachet and the more labels you collect the more interesting you are.

Only a narrative that has been explained about them, which I was mostly taking at face value. But I don't think that's the right thing to do any more.

Yes, you can get a good steer on some of the important facts from Hannah Barnes' book about the Tavistock GIDS. It's well researched, about as carefully balanced as it is possible to be, and her sources are credited. And what she describes is a lot more complicated than "trans clinics are aggressively overdiagnosing and rushing people in to treatment" although that was the effect. For example, despite (or because of) the very long waiting lists the Tavistock GIDS ended up accidentally creating a "fast track" for some of the young people who went on to adult services, a fast track that GIDS weren't even aware of. There's a lot more to it even than the big chunks that appeared in the press.

What happened was a disastrous mess and a continuing medical scandal. Prioiritsing "narratives" over facts was a large part of the problem. It's a good idea to find out more about it because some of this stuff could really bite us parents of ND children on the bum.

I agree with points 1-3

Point 4 only really stands if you are incorrectly self-diagnosising and not going deep into the reseach. (which I interpret as what you mean.)

Also does having a label have cachet or is it people just being open and honest in the hope of some compassion for dealing with how they are and how society wants them to be?

I feel those people who are seen as label collectors to seem interesting need compassion and support. As I previously said (and I’m paraphrasing from an American psychiatrist talking about her training) what is wrong with seeking attention? Yes people do it in inconvenient ways (ie cost money and resource for the poor old NHS) but there has to be some fundamental need there that requires addressing and they shouldn’t be ignored by society.

I feel those people who are seen as label collectors to seem interesting need compassion and support. As I previously said (and I’m paraphrasing from an American psychiatrist talking about her training) what is wrong with seeking attention? Yes people do it in inconvenient ways (ie cost money and resource for the poor old NHS) but there has to be some fundamental need there that requires addressing and they shouldn’t be ignored by society

I've always assumed it was part of growing up. Young people need to find their "tribe". Kids who would have been goths and hung out in real life, now self-diagnose tourettes and follow each other on tiktok.

Why are you all moaning about people getting a diagnosis they have apparently paid for, and getting meds, they don't need?

There's a shortage of ADHD medication in my country so it's fair to reason it could happen in the UK as well.

This. 100%

I get that there are some people who want to get the ‘label’ of ADHD because they want an easy explanation for their problems, or it makes them feel special etc etc. There will always be people like this.

However, as pps have pointed out, the vast majority of those seeking diagnoses already know before they go to a specialist and it’s often just the rubber stamp they need for medication/ treatment.

and having a ‘label’ does help. It can make you understand yourself better, realise that your inabilities are a symptom of the way your brain works and not because you’re lazy, stupid, messy etc.

For kids, it means that teachers understand their pupils better, can teach them more effectively and possibly get less frustrated by their inability to listen

This thread has gone in many different directions. Some have been very aggressive.
My concern is the prescription of powerful, dangerous drugs, online, by people who may or may not be appropriately qualified, taking money from potentially vulnerable people.
Where is the continued support, the clinical audit, the evidence of outcomes?
The parallels with online prescription of cross sex hormones and the appalling outcomes we are now seeing seems striking to me.
Of course the lack of NHS support is a major factor. NHS funding is a whole other problem.
I was actually considering approaching one of these online clinics, not for ADHD, but for ASD assessment. The documentary has really given me pause for thought.

It does not seem at all parallel. Even taking it at the face value you are adopting

Ultimately the ADHD meds do help or they don't.

If they don't you stop taking them and.... that's pretty much it. You may have to stop taking them slowly. But once you stop taking them there really aren't any irreversible effects. That's whether you have adhd or not.

That ignores the fact that some won't even go onto meds. It will literally validate their use of alternative coping strategies (even something so simple as being allowed to use headphones when you want to concentrate in school).

It isnt that ADHD didn't exist in the past. Its that never have we made it compulsory for kids with ADHD to sustain themselves for as long as we do currently in an environment so wholly unsuited to their needs.

Adhd drugs either help, don't help AND/OR do harm.

Drugs should not be prescribed without due diligence and this exposé shows there was very little due diligence.

Can people pay for their care, yes. Should they pay just anyone for their care, no. Should the nhs have more oversight over alternative care givers especially before handing over tax money, definitely yes.

That's fair, I wasn't aware of that. I hope it's sorted soon.

I don't agree that people are being diagnosed when they shouldn't be.

Prevalence of ADHD in adults is estimated at 3% to 4% in the uk, with a male to female ratio of approximately 3 to 1.

I can't find specific quota for uk children, but south America is one of the highest at over 10%. With an average of 5%-ish globally. Many of which are males, so girls being under-diagnosed. This leaves a large disparity in itself.

cks.nice.org.uk/topics/attention-deficit-hyperactivity-disorder/background-information/prevalence/#:~:text=In%20the%20UK%2C%20prevalence%20of,of%20approximately%203%20to%201.

Therefore, even using the average of 5%, there are 1% of adults in the UK not diagnosed.

And that's a LOT of people.

And that doesn't include the children, mainly girls, who are not diagnosed and fly under the radar.

If those %ages are built from diagnosis based on the likes of the exposed charlatans then nothing can be deduced from it. It is tainted.
That is the travesty of what these supposed healthcare givers are doing- robbing society of useful information.

Considering the citations are from 2015-2018, they were before the current social media awareness.

So no 'charlatans' as you enjoy calling medical professionals.

Sorry to burst your ableist bubble ❤️

Rates of ADHD were always high but didn't necessarily need diagnosis.

Talk to older builders, plumbers, hairdressers, electricians, first and second generation computer and internet engineers, entrepreneurs etc etc etc. The ones who left school early and were "a right toe rag" in school. The ones whose grandkids are now getting diagnosed (or not getting diagnosed because waiting lists are too long), because they can't leave school at 14 and become productive business people.

Instead of giving a valuable outlet to that energy,were trying to get them to sit still, in classrooms. Right when the surge of puberty is making it worse. And then telling them what failing individuals they are. Then wondering why they are developing mental health issues on top.

Recognising that there have most likely always been those who would have exploited adhd prescription fees is, in this case, common sense.
Charlatans didn't just appear in 2023.
Adhd needs to be taken seriously but closing eyes to this abuse of the system by medical professionals is irresponsible at best.

Calling me names doesn't change that.

I have no idea why there's an absolute push to shift the focus of the documentary away from the professionals abusing the system to the users of the system. It is in everyone's interest that they should not get away with this.
They cannot be encouraged to replicate this system for any other ailments!

Yes, I’ve been aggressive I’ll admit and apologise for - this thread and tv programme hit me at a really really low week for me - my boy is going through the sort of hell that no six year old deserves, I feel so inadequate that I can’t fix it if get him the help and support he needs - m also really struggling and really feel like I’m on the verge of another breakdown - I had one 28 months ago and lost everything 18 months ago - that breakdown cost me my marriage, job & home

i hate the affect that ADHD has on both me & my boy & genuinely I genuinely believe this programme’s approach just re-enforced the general dismissal of the condition.

I would hate to think that issues in the private sector will shut that option - I may have to go down that route I can’t cope…