Anyone watching Panorama at the moment?

[endofthelinefinally]

It is about ADHD rapid online diagnosis and very expensive drugs for all.

I wonder if anyone will join the dots and hear the bells and klaxons...

That wasn’t what it was about. It was about a dodgy strand of private medicine.
And if virtually every behavioural trait is indicative of ADHD in these questionnaires then it renders the diagnosis for everyone meaningless and not surprisingly it devalues the actual condition in the eyes of everyone else.

Go look on Twitter at the comments under the panorama tweets and tell me that the ND community doesn’t feel bashed. We really don’t feel helped because of this report - the complete opposite actually!

For years I have been misdiagnosed as having anxiety and depression and medicated for it, no GP or other professional suggested I had ADHD.

It was thankfully due to a random Instagram post that I started on a path to my ADHD diagnosis. And I mean I really researched it, clinical reports, study documents, criteria, everything. I discussed it with my parents and friends etc. I am a text book case of ADHD in an Adult Female - so which is it? ADHD or depression? I know my own mind, I know which it is, so yes I and a lot of other adults diagnosed as ND later in life do know what’s wrong with us before seeking a diagnosis.

It's also true that in the past women were not included in testing and research cohorts, meaning women were left to continue struggling with the condition because they didn't present or react the same way as men and so adult women now make up a significant proportion of retrospective diagnoses. With is partially corrective at best.

personally think it was a poor biased piece of journalism focused on bashing the ND community on the basis of everyone wants a label as an excuse

The programme did it blame the people who use these clinics. Just warned them that the diagnoses aren't reliable and they may be wasting large amount of money. The blame is attached to the providers who profit from sloppy prcedures and overdiagnosis and to the NHS commissioners who don't oversee the providers properly.

you’re really not going to pay for one unless you’re really very sure.

Self diagnosis is not reliable. Other neurodiversities are available, with presentations that can overlap with ADHD. If this clinic is diagnosing everyone who comes along with ADHD, then not only are they misdiagnosing some neurotypical people, they are also giving the wrong diagnosis to people with autism and dyspraxia and prescribing unsuitable drugs to them at great expense instead of helping them manage their actual problems.

What the TV programme said, and what the DM says about a programme, are not usually the same thing. We can't go through life worrying about how the DM presents what we say.

tell me that the ND community doesn’t feel bashed. We really don’t feel helped because of this report - the complete opposite actually!

Yes, I can see some neurodiverse people feel bashed. But what do you mean by "the ND community"? How are ND people a "community"? Or do you just mean the ND people who belong to the same online groups you belong to, they are "the ND community"? Maybe there are other ND people who feel helped by the programme. You can speak for yourself but be careful when you claim to speak for a whole "community".

did it = did not, sorry.

For those completely missing my point, the programme is about online charlatons exploiting vulnerable people, taking their money and selling them dangerous drugs without a proper, safe diagnosis.
Taking these drugs when you don't have a correct diagnosis can cause serious illness.
Those so called online psychologists do a quick tick box exercise and the doctor prescribes the drugs.

Gathering information from the perspective of the patient is not wrong.

That a person who is suffering and in need of an explanation and therefore vulnerable is being exploited by those who should know better is an absolute scandal.

This person might have another condition which is now going undetected!

We're talking about the article not twitter.
The article was very clear.

Private practices need to be held to account. They could be causing rather serious harm.

ADHD patients need care not charlatans.

@DaisyWaldron I haven't seen the documentary, but my understanding is that the journalist faked all the symptoms.

If you watch the episode then you’ll see that he didn’t fake his symptoms. He had a 3hr mental health assessment on the NHS. The journalist admitted that he has most of the traits. The dr told him that he didn’t have ADHD because they don’t have a big enough impact on his day to day life.

He then went to a couple of private clinics and all the consultations were very short and over Zoom. He answered the questionnaire, which was similar to those online quizzes. The psychologist and pharmacist didn’t ask him to elaborate on his answers. These weren’t open questions. They diagnosed him with ADHD and he was given a prescription for powerful drugs without a full in depth psychiatric assessment.

@LittleRedYarny ADHD exists and is often diagnosed when someone is a child, teen or young adult because if it’s having a huge negative impact on your life then you’d see a dr early in life (probably before your late 20s because you’d see the negative effects). There could be other reasons why a child is misbehaving or can’t sit still eg their personality, child neglect or another health issue. An adult is disorganised, a procrastinator or bored at work, but it could be just their personality, another health condition or their job is repetitive and boring. It’s dangerous that many private clinics just run through a questionnaire and don’t do a full mental health assessment to check for other reasons for the symptoms.

That man saw his own sister die in front of him aged 14.

NHS consultant discussed how complex trauma can present similarly to adhd.

Anyone who thinks that man should have been fobbed off with some adhd meds in order to make a private company some £££ when he actually needs, for example, some trauma based counselling is a bit of a disgrace imo.

Yes, I do see parallels with private providers of drugs to treat gender dysphoria. It's the same wherever there is profit to be made from vulnerable people who are suffering.

Much better oversight of some of these private providers and pharmacies is required. And huge investment in mental health - it's an utter tragedy how people are suffering.

The pharmacy issue is much broader than that. Online pharmacies are pretty much tick boxing the prescription of many meds now. Look at ozempic threads for example.

when he actually needs, for example, some trauma based counselling is a bit of a disgrace imo.

He will be very lucky to access trauma based counselling on the NHS.

Some major misconceptions;

Everyone will tick some of the boxes on a screening questionnaire - yes, but very few people will score sufficiently highly to meet the prescreen criteria for “shows signs of adhd”.

Disorganised housewives (🙄) get unwarranted private diagnoses - there’s so much wrong with this idea from the perspective of medical care for women.

You can’t actually get an adhd diagnosis unless your symptoms are sufficient in certain areas and also have a significant debilitating impact on several areas of your life

I have ADHD. I can see the point about how easy it is to get private diagnosis for adults because I did find it easy. ADHD has had long term negative effects on my life but because I don't present in the typical male way it was missed. I was diagnosed and medicated for incorrect mental health diagnosis. Worsening my life experience further.

I do not think private diagnosis for children is easy however. But I've not seen these done online. My child very definitely has ADHD the private clinician is sure but can't diagnose as he's got trauma from his school experience and the symptoms overlap. It's infuriating. I actually know of many parents that have paid privately and not got the diagnosis (and some I do feel should not have got diagnosed). The NHS wait is 4 years.

I'm seriously offended if someone were to say to me I just want the label. Live a week with ADHD as a woman then form your opinion.

In the Telegraph:

ADHD drugs prescribed with ‘incorrect diagnosis’

digitaleditions.telegraph.co.uk/data/1304/reader/reader.html?social#!preferred/0/package/1304/pub/1304/page/26/article/NaN

At least he could spend his money on that instead of adhd meds and follow up appointments. A few grand buys you a fair bit of counselling.

Or is it better that he lines the pocket of a private adhd clinic when he doesn't have adhd?

Yes, there should be much more mental health therapy available on the nhs. No, private companies filling the gap by mis selling, misdiagnosing and misprescribing for profit is not an acceptable price to pay. That applies to any health condition. If you disagree, take a good look at your moral compass.

You missed the entire point of the expose, which was that you can indeed get that diagnosis. Did you watch the psychologist interview with him? It was a disgrace frankly. Charlatans!

Some people just love a label. Maybe it’s a form of Munchausen’s Syndrome?
https://www.nhs.uk/mental-health/conditions/munchausen-syndrome/overview/

For those of you horrified at the possibility of people being prescribed drugs for ADHD when they might not have it ( and it's really not as simple as just getting a prescription - you need all sorts of health checks first) do you also care that a really high proportion diagnosed as ADHD as an adult will have had already been prescribed drugs for the anxiety/depression/bipolar disorder they were diagnosed with before their ADHD diagnosis and/or have been abusing drugs and alcohol to self medicate or because of impulsivity? The NHS lack of diagnosis causes plenty of harm,too.

The opening of the documentary says that ADHD is a medical condition and it can have a profound impact on people's lives.
The documentary focus isn't speculating on whether someone who has gone to a reputable private medical provider with ethical and responsible clinicians has an accurate diagnosis.

The focus is on a large money-making machine where diagnoses and expensive prescriptions are dished out to anyone willing to pay. It's exploitative and unethical.

How will he know what to spend his money on, or where to direct his efforts if he can't get an evaluation? Try getting counselling on the NHS. Especially targeted counselling. The GP will not/cannot give it.

Did the program focus on the gap in provision for ADHD assessment in the NHS? The fact that a person could be struggling and yet expected to shuffle along with absolutely nothing in some counties and boroughs, no provision, no assessment nothing at all, or years and years of waiting? Did it cover that angle?

That the NHS will not take over prescribing for ADHD even if forced to seek a private diagnosis (assuming you can afford it) and the NHS is being privatised by stealth because of the increasing amount of things it will not help with. Did it cover that angle?

I agree private clinics deserve scrutiny, but the inherent point that we're becoming increasingly like the privatised system in America (where medicines are more overly prescribed) due to the failure caused by underinvestment in the NHS is overlooked it seems.

I do not see the NHS as for purpose in many regards. Unless you are forced to engage with it a lot you don't see it. Elderly people are being failed massively. I see them where I work and they come to be treated.

Private pharmacies are a god-send when one cannot even see a GP for months and you need a diagnosis and some treatment.

Personally if the NHS can't help, I would like private pharmacies to have less regulation and for us to have a more diverse healthcare system. Then people won't be prey for such companies and have more choice. But as it is what makes them vulnerable is the fact the provision simply isn't (and lets face it unless Labour steps in with funding massively, which I am sceptical about seeing their track record with universities) there at all.

Have you just come on here to be really obnoxious, threatening and rude to people today? Because you’re not winning any arguments.