Anyone watching Panorama at the moment?

[endofthelinefinally]

It is about ADHD rapid online diagnosis and very expensive drugs for all.

I wonder if anyone will join the dots and hear the bells and klaxons...

Just thought it might be helpful to point out that it's possible both to be angry at the scandal of NHS waiting times and at the same time angry at the scandal of private firms taking advantage of that to hand out wrong diagnoses for cash.

This really is exactly the same rubbish as we see with the "everyone who says they're trans is trans" stuff. It in no way invalidates a genuine medical condition to acknowledge that some people who might think they have that condition actually don't. Quite the opposite, in fact.

Did the program focus on the gap in provision for ADHD assessment in the NHS?

When someone makes a documentary about that I will watch it too, with interest. That doesn't invalidate the content of this documentary.

I agree that there is a shortage of "biggger picture" documentaries about the NHS. Dramatic under cover investigation documentaries get more attention.

I'll accept that. Decent point.

The programme did indeed focus, at the beginning, on the terrible state of the NHS, the waiting lists, the need for a proper psychiatric assessment and follow up, the fact that ADHD is a serious condition and that powerful drugs are used to treat it.
The point of the expose was what followed. The exploitation of vulnerable people by unqualified, greedy people.
It is worth watching the actual programme.

But I think that’s the problem with ADHD ( and I’m a parent of a child with it). It is essentially diagnosed through looking at - in the case of adults- self reported symptoms.

you are right to point out that everyone exhibits these symptoms at times.
however, it’s the severity of these symptoms and the extent they affect your life which tips it into ADHD.

from what you’ve said here - you wouldn’t be diagnosed with ADHD.

despite all this I have problems with this documentary.

Im not sure what’s so shocking about the fact that if you go private, the bar is far lower for diagnosis and getting a prescription. They are making money from it.

there was no follow up about why people would feel the need to spend a fortune on diagnosis and drugs if the NHS actually provided help.

And even if people don’t have ADHD, they may have other mental health problems which are causing them to seek treatment. Why aren’t they being spotted by a GP?

Again, every behavioural trait isn’t considered by private clinics (or anyone) to be indicative of adhd, and if that’s the impression the program gave, it was certainly very biased.

There need to be many traits, operating at a high/significant level (there’s a high threshold), which altogether must also significantly impact the individuals life.

Just pop on the Panorama tweets and read the comments underneath- you’ll get a view from the ND community right there.

endofthelinefinally
Agreed. They also explained that there is a problem with social media blurring the lines between common behaviours that many people display and ADHD that had a substantial effect on someone's life.
The social media example they showed had someone linking ADHD to not always tidying up after yourself. Of course lots of adults don't tidy up after themselves all the time. It doesn't mean they have ADHD. Some of the content about ADHD recently online is similar to years ago where people would talk about being a bit OCD because you like a clean home and put your felt pens back in the packet in rainbow order.

The NHS specialist also said that whilst the journalist might do some things in some areas, there is a clinical threshold required for ADHD diagnosis that the journalist didn't meet.

Online providers focused on making money from people are likely causing harm by not properly investigating other ND aspects. They're not bothered about the patients. They're bothered about money.

The programme did indeed focus, at the beginning, on the terrible state of the NHS, the waiting lists, the need for a proper psychiatric assessment and follow up, the fact that ADHD is a serious condition and that powerful drugs are used to treat it.

My apologies - I started watching partway through and missed that.

No need to apologise. At least you watched the programme.

ADHD doesn't have to be treated with medication. We seem to have done a sudden U turn there. A few years ago most were recognising the issues that medical intervention for children could bring. It can but should be trialled and adjusted under medical supervision. It can cause nasty side effects.

Many of the strategies used with dyslexic and autistic people really help with adhd. Add is a commonly ignored issue that in my experience often responds better to meds.

We also seem to suddenly be pathologising a lot of very common human traits. Adhd can be a force for good too - the teacher ICT with Mr P was diagnosed as a child.

Modern ideals of teaching and learning are not appropriate for many active children. Adults can have more choice in their careers and find one with a pace and demands / interests that suits them.

There's also a lot in our high tech environment that doesn't help those with Adhd and some think are leading some adults and children to develop symptoms. There's a book called "stolen focus" which looks at it all in depth.

The programme focuses on clinics making a lot of money giving people who are struggling what they want.

Incidentally, my experience of perimenopause has been extreme inability to focus. Hrt has definitely helped but I also know I have to regain some healthy habits that smartphone and mumsnet have rather destroyed.

They've been medicating every conceivebale childhood stress for many years in the U.S.A. I have an old college frined who moved to the U.S a long time ago and who has three children ( now all over the age of 18). Two out of her three childfren had been medicated by the time they were 12 years old. One supposedly for ADHD, and the other for anxiety and 'Oppositional Defiant Disorder'.

Somanycats why bullshit? NHS waiting lists are 4 years for a diagnosis and ADHD massively impacts a persons life, people loose jobs and relationships because of it.

I don’t think it’s bullshit to seek a diagnosis and support/medication through private means.

But it's clear that the companies aren't properly assessing their patients.

I have always had difficulty with attention and organisation. Monotropism. I chose a career that created a structure for me to adhere to. I've also now had close family members diagnosed with add. It has caused issues in my relationship, but mainly as I believe my husband is also that way inclined but sexistly expects me not to be.

However I've learnt a lot of strategies over the years and can't be arsed to chase a diagnosis after all the others I have.

There really is a trend for people to self diagnose all sorts of conditions via on line forums and the like. PTSD is another one. People seem to need a label for their suffering. The problem is this then can become an almost essential part of their their psychic structure as well as their identity.

I'm not sure what’s so shocking about the fact that if you go private, the bar is far lower for diagnosis and getting a prescription. They are making money from it.

Medical ethics still apply to private providers. The waiting time is shorter but there's no reason why assessments should be less thorough or why the bar for medication should be any lower.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👍🏻

Medical ethics SHOULD still apply to online providers.
I have had personal experience of what purported to be a bona fide medical cannabis clinic. (I have severe chronic pain). It absolutely wasn't and what was really disappointing was the number of doctors making money out of it.
There might be a few really good clinics, but how is the patient to know?

Wow 😮 I am genuinely appalled

genuinely have a bloody good look at yourself - what an ignorant, unempathetic comment

wishing you a really sh*tty day and I hope karma bites you right right where you talk

Do you have ADHD? Do your children or family have ADHD? Do you know anything about ADHD?

I suspect the answers are NO, so why post this? Prejudice? Attention seeking? You were bored?? Genuinely a serious question. As I can’t picture why done one would sit and think, I know, here’s a subject I know nothing about and I have no connection to, wouldn’t it be a great if I popped onto the Viper’s Nest and shared my lack of wisdom??!?! 🤦‍♀️

To answer your first questions:
No
Yes
Yes.
Your second paragraph:
I explained previously that online clinics are exploiting vulnerable people, taking their money and
prescribing expensive, powerful drugs that can potentially do great harm.
I am glad I watched the programme because it has been a really useful warning.

"Viper's nest"

Nice.

So there are genuine concerns about access to drugs in the wrong way, but when those concerns are given airtime, everyone is a Bad Person With Malicious Intentions for discussing those concerns. Moreover, nasty tropes about women discussing the news are brought out.

Got it.

Please don’t make such reductionists statements as people uses labels in place of their identity. Perhaps people need a lable for their suffering to be taken serious and for them to get the much needed support to live.

Seriously we need to flip this idea of any kind of request mental health support/treatment as attention seeking. What is so fundamentally wrong with seeking attention?

Brienne Brown put it best when she said “we need to dispel the myth the empathy is walking in someone else’s shoes. Rather than walking in your shoes, I need to learn how to listen to the story you tell about what it’s like in your shoes and believe you even when it doesn’t match my experiences.”

I’m not sure people are missing the point. The point that I and others are making is that the reporting was poorly done. To many of us diagnosed this report just perpetuates the idea that ADHD is fake, especially if we’ve had a diagnosis under anything but an NHS clinician. That’s before we even get to the discussion about medication, particularly as modern day pills are slow release so we’re not doing it for a massive high.

MN is widely known as the Viper’s Nest and for good reason - thank you for being the stereotype that proves the point….🤦‍♀️👍🏻🤭